corndjorn

@Rilles @Rilles spira isnt fully enlightened, but is awake to nonduality, there is a difference really, he is in a deep nondual state though i believe. dont feel like talking about the difference tbh cuz i talked about it before in the thread, sorry for my laziness lol

@Esoteric oh okay, didnt know.

@Arhattobe thank you. and in regard why im here I like discussing spirituality with people from time to time, also can help me put to light and process my own stuff

@Esoteric if you truly think you're enlightened, or everyone is enlightened, then youre not really congruent to reality. Do you really think people are fully enlightened with all the egoic delusions that are in their system?

@Esoteric Again, awakening to nonduality is not full enlightenment. ive been stabilized in nonduality for 4 years now, but your limbic system has to catch up to the awakening by clearing ALL fear mechanisms and the attachments that try to run away from it. only then and only then, can you be considered enlightened. before that you are just awake to nonduality, because there are still veils of delusion that cover your experience, which is incongruent to the nature of nonduality.

@Rilles pretty much sums it up haha. at a certain point in peoples path they realize the pointlessness of the subconcious chasing or want of mystical nondual experiences. you awake to nature, then your limbic system goes through a process which catches up with nature, thus harmonizes with the awakening and complete nonduality or enlightenment is realized.

during the early stages of awakening the ego can misinterpret nonduality and use it as an escape or be lazy or whatever subconcious egoic dream u have, due to lack of depth in the nondual experience itself. once awakened to nonduality, your limbic system goes through a process of uncontraction, and this process can be disrorienting because your ego is basically in a triggered-release cycle until all fear mechanisms and the attachments that resist and run away from those fears are completely absent from ur system, once thats happened, you are considered to be fully enlightened. i would say try reflecting on what you are trying to run away from, and then once that fear is exposed, then can clearly see its delusional (because you awoke to nonduality), dont try to escape or do anything though, just recognize the unreality of these fears and attachments. your energetic system will purge it out when its due. I suggest reading or watching sheng yen's videos on youtube, he has helpful videos concerning this process.

@Recursoinominado the dude has been experiencing kundalini for 12 years, do you really think he doesnt know that youre supposed to surrender? some people cannot deal with the energy on their own, a proffessional kundalini master is needed as a guide for many people experiencing kundalini awakenings, ive known people wreck their lives because of not knowing how to stabilize the energy, having responsibility and caution is important and i dont advise anyone to do kundalini awakening by themselves, even if it turns out that they can handle it anyway, you want to be safe than sorry. some peoples energetic system are not fit for kundalini awakenings, kundalini is not for everyone.

@Esoteric Yes, I am aware that psychedelics can be benefical for some people, but for a person who is undergoing the process of clearing out emotional bubbles, taking an energetic amplifier that amplifies your emotional bubbles (and also facets of consciousness and reality, such as nonduality) is a risky bussiness for someone who isnt seeking anymore and is just going through the process of enlightenment, since awakening to nonduality is one thing, which many gurus you know have done (many mistake this as enlightenment aswell) but full enlightenment which only occurs when your limbic system catches up with the awakening, is another thing. its a delicate process of releasing fear mechanisms and the attachments you use to battle them. so energetic amplifiers are dangerous in this regard because they make you more suggestible to your own egoic paradigms that you are blind to (the ones you are not blind to however, psychs can help in that regard, depending on if youre genuine or not). and if blindspots are amplified, your process to enlightenment is gonna be an unneccessarily bumpy ride.

@Esoteric I have never stated that its not relative. and yes i do agree with you about the benefits you stated, i stated them aswell in my post. ive used psychedelics for many times responsibly (and uresponsibily) and helped my path indeed, i never deny that. However, i have been in nonduality for over 4 years and at this point in my path, me taking a psychedelic is very pointless because for one; I dont feel the need to chase or experience nondual states anymore, or have a very wowzer mystical experience, since the subconcious need for it is just another attachment and fear mechanism that im clearing out anyway. i think anyone whos been stable in nonduality for a while knows that taking energetic amplifiers at their point in the path would blunt the limbic system process thats occuring after awakening to nonduality. awakening to nonduality is one thing, the process that occurs after in your limbic system which clears your fear mechanisms and the attachments that resist it, is another thing. and this process should be respected and taken with consideration, energetic amplifiers can make you see through some fear mechanisms, but humans have many blindspots, and you dont want a blindspot to be amplified so much so that its even a bigger blindspot now.

Im not sure if this is your case, but this is why i dont condone kriya practices/kundalini awakening for people who do not have a kundalini master as a guide, the energetic movements are too intense, and the process of chakric/limbic system cleansing is way faster/intense than when done sober, which is dangerous imo because youre more viable to psychological problems. i suggest finding a kundalini master to help stabilize your energy more. and good luck man, your situation sounds rough.

@Joseph Maynor awakening to nonduality is one thing, the process that your limbic system undergoes after the awakening is another thing. the process by which it clears fear mechanisms and the attachments that resist and run away from those fears, since fear is delusional to a person awoke to nonduality. many misunderstand that enlightenment comes with awakening, they couldnt be farther from the truth however, its only the mere start, full enlightenment is when your limbic system catches up with the awakening. I suggest reading or watching some of sheng yen's work, and also shun ryu, both are buddhist monk masters who have been stable in nonduality for many years, but they have the guts to admit that they arent fully enlightened yet, unlike many other gurus.

@Salvijus Like I said, psychedelics can awaken a person to nonduality, but awakening to nonduality is not full enlightenment. your energetic system which has a memory of fear mechanisms and attachments has to catch up to the awakening. only then can that be full enlightement. because how can you be truly nondual when fear mechanisms are still in your subconcious mind? a cleansing process of your limbic system has to take place for full enlightenment. Psychedelics, being energetic amplifiers by their nature, amplify your consciousness which can lead to nondual awakening and also other things such as dealing with trauma and having new perspectives, but they also amplify your emotional bubbles ALOT, and humans by nature have egoic blindspots, especially during psychedelic experiences because everything is just amplified to a ridiculous degree. All emotion and their thought patterns are based off of fear mechanisms in your subconious mind. when you awaken to nonduality, you realize fear is delusion, thus, the process of uncontracting your limbic system of fear mechanisms and the attachments that resist them, start to take place. Also, you shouldnt take any Guru's word just because he says hes enlightened. many gurus awoke to nonduality and stabilized for many years but they dont admit that they arent fully enlightened either, i mean, you can clearly see that sadghuru still plays egoic games such as arrogance and also you can see anxiety in him in some interviews, this does not indicate a fully enlightened man, although he is in a very deep nondual state i have to say, its just that he hasnt dealt with alot of his issues and him being a guru and being attached to that identity kind of stops him from seeing his issues. I have been in nonduality for 4 years, enlightenment is not instatenous, awakening is however. the veils that cover reality slowly uncover from your subconcious once awakened, only when they are fully gone can you consider yourself fully enlightened.

@Shakazulu no prob <3

@Consilience I dont think you read my post if you think im being dogmatic. i already stated they have their benefits, but at a certain point in the path energetic amplifers are not conductive for enlightenment because they amplify the mere thing that everyone on the spiritual path is clearing, which is emotional bubbles which are all based off subconcious fear mechanisms. also, intense and profound experiences have nothing to do with real enlightenment, they can have their purposes in peoples paths though. this is why i say psychs experiences can have benefits such as awakening to nonduality and gives new perspectives (although with alot of amplified emotion which can delude you, and were human, so we have blindspots), doing spiritual work sober is much more conductive than psychedelic experiences, you deal with way less egoic blindspots this way, because psychs amplify emotion and their thought patterns so much so that its very easy to be suggestible to their realities. and the mysticalness and profoundness feelings of all psych experiences come from emotion.

@ivory awakening to nonduality is not full enlightenment. your energetic system which has a memory of fear mechanisms and attachments has to catch up to the awakening. only then can that be full enlightement. because how can you be truly nondual when fear mechanisms are still in your subconcious mind? a cleansing process of your limbic system has to take place for full enlightenment.

@Shakazulu i feel you. but a word of advice is to read up on the noble 8 fold path by the buddha. it used to seem like total bullshit and just running around to me when i first awoke, but i realized that its a pretty good system for having balance during this process of uncontraction. cuz this process can be pretty disorienting alot of the time due to the nature that we are so used to egoic consciousness and the mere fact that uncontraction means that we are gonna be feeling pain, alot. because attachment is pain, and when u release it its like you're releasing a thorn from your body, it will hurt, but progressively you will be so beat down that all of that stuff is gonna be gone, its like when a person goes through war, he has more resilience towards the pain and suffering of war, with enlightenment the process will eliminate every fear though, and even normal people are going through this process aswell but without their conscious awareness (and usually slower than people awakened to nonduality), life beats down our attachments again and again until we surrender the fight, and running away from fear.

@Shakazulu ?

yup, many dont like reflecting on themselves because it attacks the subconcious fears that the ego is trying to run away from, the game it likes to play of sadness and all the other slew of the human emotional system. you gotta deal with your man tho, he doesnt go away that easily, once awakened its only the mere start. a process of uncontracting from the delusional fears and the things u cling onto which protect you from those fears, starts to take place.

@Serotoninluv ?

@TheAvatarState I highly doubt it tbh. just the mere fact that we are humans and we have egoic blindspots is enough reason to be very careful with believing that psychs are perfect, because even though people dont really think that, i think many subconciously do. Like i said they have many benefits and they benefited me aswell, but at a certain point energetic amplifiers are not congruent to enlightenment, it just doesnt make any sense to me at my point in the path. anything that makes your emotional bubbles bigger is not enlightenment, enlightenment is the clearing of emotional bubbles, not just awakening to nonduality, awakening to nonduality is the start. but sadly, since many have these fancy nondual experiences on psychs, they think its enlightenment. if you think it takes you straight to enlightenment then are u saying you are stabilized in enlightenment or just with the psych experience? cuz if its just an experience of enlightenment then that doesnt do anything benefecial for me, i already awakened to nonduality, but my system is undergoing systemic changes which is clearing energetic contractions, and giving my system a psychedelic which amplifies bubble contractions is just a bad idea at my point, so this is why im saying psychedelics at a certain point would blunt your progress. has alotta benefits for people starting out for sure but people whove been stabilized in nonduality long enough i think can relate to what i am saying.

@Serotoninluv I honestly believe that psychs make a person more egoic in the long term then if the person was sober.

what do you mean exactly?

@Joseph Maynor my man, lol

anyone heard of spiritual transmissions or experienced them? they really do initiate a process in you... seems like a good enlightenment tool for progress as it makes you purge your fear mechanisms/egoic protections much faster/clearer. id say its a more valuable tool than psychedelics but i can only see psychedelics as a door opener but not a process helper