IJB063

I'm not stage orange anyway, I'm fully stage red my guy, I'm a fucking SAVAGE

I'm not just dismissing science, or reason. To look at something for "what it is" what is that if not a preconceived and presupposed notion of objective truth, arguments based upon skepticism. I'm here because I enjoy the actualised.org videos and I think a lot of the viewers that watch his stuff are intelligent and make arguments and points you don't see often elsewhere, on things like epistemology etc... I'm not frustrated, I'm just clarifying my thinking

You get to a point where you can't substantiate your argument, so you just bust out the There's no such such thing as objective truth pivot

What is an argument if not clarification of ones thought process What else are you attempting to be, wrong? Okay, I understand that, but its still we need these constructs to survive and to improve as a race, I'm not taking anything granted for the "absolute truth" I'm not even sure if there is such a thing

He never says "all", he literally says instead "often" often = all, I don't think that's a "straw man" but I agree with the video, many people have ego investment in their appearance and they don't like objectivity as it hurts their precious feelings, the game that is being played that there is no objectivity is a biased ego game

I think constant cultish holier than thou now references to a person values is nonsense

@BETGR164128 Good video by School of Life titled "Beauty is not in the eye of the beholder" Although the video is on architecture the exact logic does apply to people

See, now how are you supposed to argue against the that, nothings objective our words mean nothing and there is no reality, so lets not talk about it when a truths is inconvenient, I don't understand why you're even arguing a point about human nature if you don't believe there is such a thing as human nature in the first place The scientific process is about being objective, empiricist and self scrutinizing, as is humanly possible, through a skeptical lens facts can't just be interpreted as one wants, as there are objective standards by which we deduce the truth In a sense everything is seen through our own eyes, we have no other frame of reference (you can't see reality through someone elses eyes) yet in a sense, based upon our nature we piece together reality, and a good way to do is rational thought, not complete relativity, it seems like you're making a solipsistic argument, and one which anything is permissible and there is no truth. Why we've got here over me saying the are good looking people and bad looking people I don't know. ? For the most part that is what we see, beautiful people mating with beautiful people, relationships aren't just built around ones physical appearance, I don't know if you've ever been in one, and those that don't fit into this average there are mitigating circumstances in that individuals psyche for instance a good looking woman who stays with a wife beater because she has such a low self esteem. Why would we see a decline in the average because of less mating opportunities?

Well now we're getting existential, so you,ve taken the point to an extreme No its not a hypothesis its a theory, well supported by facts and rudimentary to evolution, no one said there was just surface level physical attraction but it is important for a relationship to actually be physically attracted to the person and this is objective What are these confounding variables that can't captured by the scientific process

Why would we be arbitrarily conditioned to see certain features as attractive and not others, and by who, biology, our own human nature is what conditions us to find some things attractive and other things not - as I linked to in the study above - here it is http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton/papers/downloads/Frederick_Haselton_2007_Muscularity_sexy.pdf We look for fitness indicators, from a biological perspective the entire purpose of sex is to have children and to procreate, this widespread idea of recreational sex only follows really since the sexual revolution and the invention of the birth control pill, what we find attractive is traits that are indicators that we will have fit children who will survive, not what has been conditioned into us by some evil conspiracy of society for no apparent reason, a conspiracy which also happens for some arbitrary reason to share trends in every group of people and culture throughout all of human history, I just wrote a post on this topic "romance" if your interested Objective - "not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts." The fact that we agree on generalities means attraction or what is attractive is objective

@BETGR164128 Beauty is objective, we recognize patterns in what people do are don't perceive as attractive, what people general find attractive is objectively for example people find faces that are symmetrical more attractive than faces that aren't symmetrical generally, people find people who are fit more attractive generally than people who are morbidly obese, this is objectively true People have there own idiosyncrasies in what they find attractive, but this only proves the rule I get what you're saying, but your perception doesn't make them objectively more beautiful

@Marinus http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton/papers/downloads/Frederick_Haselton_2007_Muscularity_sexy.pdf

Yep Unfortunately I disagree, I think its the ego defending is self by obfuscating our nature, human beings only care about survival, domination and procreation, in so far as we excel at those things we are doing well, in so far as we don't we are a failure, and as we fail we will be selected out of the gene pool therefore putting an end to whatever seemed on the surface to be done out of altruism and compassion This is my point, counter intuitive to our survival, meaning it isn't good for us if we want to live and pass on our genes or that behavior Agree 100%, spirituality is about transcending our nature in so far as we can do that, this is what separates us from the animals Not No that will be Universal love not romantic love, romantic love is predicated upon you as a being, universal love is love of all things, as mentioned in the Buddhist video, this is why there can't be such a thing as romantic love Godspeed @Derek White

@Identity Not so much as you think when it comes to women I know what they say "Looks aren't as important when it comes to women" They are just as important, its just women are generally so vain and superficial in other areas that they'll compromise on looks IF you meet other prerequisites We are superficial creatures, appearance is everything Good shit mate, losing 10kg and still be a savage is good stuff, keep up the good work Godspeed

I have so much love I don't know what to do with it Yep Yep, its the drug comedown Much love to you to @Vxvxen

@Identity Your bulletproof Game and charming personality wont make you look any better when your shirt comes off.

@Anubis "an expression of good wishes to a person starting a journey." Have you heard of google, its cool

@Keyhole Hope you find someone as well I agree but its worth a shot, but really all it ends up being is pissing in the wind

Thanks a lot @Keyhole I appreciate that, and I agree with everything you said As Voltaire said "Gods a comedian playing to an audience to afraid to laugh"

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think your asking me to inspect the metaphysical of reality, I am trying to do that in so far as I can, it is my belief that romantic love is a lie, I do see how I've wrote this off, why, because I can't explain our complete nature, its tough to do and I don't know anyone which has done it. I am aware that we have a biological imperative, you can call it what ever you want, you could even call it "awareness". I only used the lion to illustrate a point, I could of used the fact that a female praying mantis literally rips the fucking head of their mates when having sex. I actual believe though that the human is unique, uniquely shit, Schopenhauer talks in great depth about this, even in the video we're compared to moles, animals seem to be much more content with mere existence than we are, they have no concept of the future or the past therefore they have no concept of death, animals are in many way in an enviable condition. I know of no lions to create concentration camps and in mass genocide hippos, though I may be wrong, I haven't directly experienced it. Also I can talk about having children although myself have not having children, if not speaking from direct experience is delusion than we're all fucking delusion, the earths flat there is no such thing as science and no countries exist since I haven't been there. Also no offence taken Yeah I agree, what I'm talking about isn't unconditional love, but its what our culture venerates as unconditional love, that is what I'm attacking I was joking about the narcissistic fantasies, although they do say ignorance is bliss, but they also do say that the truth will set you free, I will keep inspecting, and I get that I'm the only person who can realize the truth, because I only have my frame of reference, remember that applies to you to

@Roy Ha, that was a preemptive first strike with That cracked me up, you did get me, in seriousness though I do love hippies Anyway I do understand the concept that as a society or the species advances so does our love and compassion for all peoples regardless of circumstance, as you listed neighbors, community, country, ethnicity, sexual orientation etc... Funny enough Schopenhauer does have a quote along the lines of "Compassion is the basis of morality" So in so far as a society is compassionate it is advanced and does not discriminate in that compassion But I do believe there is a difference between compassion and love Especially romantic love The love that you speak about is not romantic love, at least as how we define romantic love in contemporary society. I do think there a lot of truth to Love is experiential, but so is cocaine or heroin, the high is whats important, not the method And romanticism can be applied to both love as with drugs (Love practically being a drug) So again there is nothing inherently special to romantic love I find it very funny that you said Because that is the exact same thing that was said to me in a previous post I made a few days ago on boredom "Maps and readings/study are actually pretty important. Without teachings we are more lost that not. But, not completely because awakening is our birthright and intrinsic." At first I was like, why this guy talking about maps but know I get the analogy So I'm recognizing a pattern Anyway Cheers

@Pell Thanks buddy its appreciated, I've just been scrolling through that Reddit guide, I'll check the rest of those links out as well and get back to once I do, I'll reply to you in this thread cause I wanna keep this thread going in case anyone else is interested or wants to make some points

@Ingit Maybe they where just busy and didn't see your message or couldn't respond, don't jump to the idea there all out to tease you, no one cares as much about yourself as you do, they're all doing there own thing, whats neutral is not to care in the first place

@Pell Thanks to the link to the guide, I'll give it a read later. From the same book just a different essay "On thinking for yourself" "People who pass their lives in reading and acquire their wisdom from books are like those who learn about a country from travel descriptions: they can impart information about a great number of things, but at the bottom they possess no connected clear, thorough knowledge of what the country is like. On the other hand, people who pass their lives in thinking (thinking = experiencing) are like those who have visited the country themselves: they alone are really familiar with it, possess connected knowledge of it and are truly at home with it." I agree 100% its better to experience than to explicate, but was is that guide if not a travel description/explication

Anyway I'm going to bed it eleven and I got shit to do tomorrow, and I've spent the last hour and a half going over the "overcoming addiction" video and my book notes, so anyway goodnight & godspeed