Stakres

I'm in my early 20s. I've been depressed for years since childhood, however not much seems to help me. Over the last 2 years I have been working with psychologists and psychiatrists. I've tried CBT, Escitalopram (Lexapro), Agomelatine and I'm currently taking Venlafaxine (Effexor). Nothing has really helped so far. I have a really good job and career opportunities, I live in a safe country, have food and healthcare and my basic physiological needs are covered. I feel lonely and shame myself for not being able to quit porn. Love is missing and I cannot find a girlfriend. Some days are ok, but many are pretty bad. I don't want to do anything and want to just lay in bed, but simultaneously shame myself that I'm not working on my goals. The only couple of days when I felt good, content and really happy in my life were: when I took LSD or psilocybin and couple of days of Lexapro. Lexapro might have triggered hypomania, although my psychiatrists says it wasn't hypomania. Maybe I just felt "normal" and happy for the first time. I don't want to give up, so I'm trying to take part in psilocybin/LSD/DMT/Ketamine research studies. But to be honest it's really hard until I can get those treatments, and I feel that I'm not getting better. Nothing really makes me happy. I feel like something is always missing. I'm not sure how to deal with the bad days. Do you have any tips or pointers on what I can try? How can I deal and "survive" the really bad days?

@Tech36363 The cause of depression is probably both: porn and being lonely. I used to feel quite a bit better when I was in a relationship. Porn addiction was almost not an issue in my last relationship. @mandyjw True. I feel quite a bit of pressure to become successful, grow in my career, make a lot of money, have cool experiences which I have missed out on so far, etc. It's fairly difficult to do what feels good for a moment when I feel like missing out on growth and being young. @Mu_ I often struggle with advice like this. "Stopping bad thoughts" is easy to do in my experience when I feel good, and pretty much impossible when I feel bad and would need it the most. Trying to "accept" even the bad thoughts makes me focus on them forever and go down thought spirals, in my experience. I'll definitely try to be more grateful and focus on small improvements. @Michael569 I don't sleep very well and want to sleep for 12 hours per day. Not going to the gym at the moment because they have been closed (but also don't work out at home). I stay inside most of the time. Food is purely functional for me, I don't really enjoy food and cook basics. In my experience all this is more a symptom of feeling down, instead of the other way around. Well, it's a self-reinforcing loop. But I wanted to go outside, meet people, exercise, etc when I felt good. On bad days (most days) it's difficult and I don't see a reason to do all those things. @neutralempty Why do you think one should stop antidepressants? Why would that hinder the efforts to ease depression? @Nahm This kind of "spiritual" advice was easy to implement when I felt good. Unfortunately during depressed days, when I need that the most, it's very hard to actually do.

@Gesundheit Yes I have tried breathing exercises, including Wim Hof and Christopher Hyatt's "Undoing yourself" methods. Those temporarily felt good, but depressive thinking and feeling always kicks back in fairly quickly. @PepperBlossoms Pretty much the only activity which helps me feel a bit better and creative is programming. However, I often think that programming is a "waste of time" because it doesn't help me to achieve my goals (fitness, improving social skills and starting a business). Other than that, nothing really makes me "happy". As you suggested, I might try to acquire my own psychedelics, although I definitely want to trip with a professional psychologist next time, to guide me through the experience and facilitate healing. @Ima Freeman Going outside helps a bit, but even being outside my thought loops are still present and after getting back home everything is like before. I have tried orgasming without porn. It works sometimes, but lately became more difficult, possibly because my addiction is so bad, but maybe also because of difficulty with sexual arousal as a side-effect of anti-depressants. Thanks for the book recommendation, I will check it out. I always feel like something is missing. I have tried to meditate and feel into my body on what that missing thing is, but I can't seem to find an answer. Probably love, belonging and being cared for. Once, on the day after a weed high, I woke up and I felt 'complete'. Nothing was missing and I didn't feel like I have to do anything but I could do what I wanted. It was such a nice feeling. Several trips have shown me the same perspective. What could I be missing? What is the path to feeling content/complete?

@Fadl what is your approach to reach truth / deep state without psychedelics? What could you recommend to me to consider?

I've been depressed for years. Tried some psychedelics a couple of times in the last 3 years. Those were beautiful experiences. I found a good job and moved to a new place. I had 2 horrible trips during quarantine in February / March. I was confused what's real what's not. I stopped taking drugs. Fast forward to June, I smoked a bit of weed again, in a much better setting with a friend. I had a horrible trip again, didn't know what reality was and thought I was dying, with all deepest fears coming up. The trip stopped the next morning. It felt like an initiation. I felt like I was in a game. So many synchronicities. I felt in metaphorical "heaven". However, I was still very much in this world I always knew, but the perspective was very different. I thought that everything that I thought was true, might be wrong. There are so many different perspectives and I have to find what's true for me. This "deep psycho-emotional state" lasted for 3 days. I felt "reborn" in a way. I'm on the path to find my true will. A couple of weeks later, in early July, I started taking anti-depressants (been in therapy for about a year). That triggered the same "deep psycho-emotional state". Lots of synchronicities, thought patterns shattering, trying new things I never thought I would before. Sometimes I wanted to slip into solipsism and think that I'm the only one in this "game of life" and that it's all for me. Right people came into my life at the right time. I felt that I could do whatever I wanted and there is nothing to worry about. This "deep state" lasted for about 1-1.5 weeks this time. After that I was "normal" (more like before) again. A few weeks later, I got into a more depressed state. Especially the last couple of days have been hard. It's really hard to push myself and do the things I want. I have no motivation to do the things I want to do. I just stay in bed. Meds don't seem to work as well as before. I would like to be in that "deep state" or at least more "content" with what is happening with me, both when I'm feeling good and bad. Any thoughts / suggestions about my experiences would really help.

@mandyjw I'll try doing little things like that. Thank you Yes I push myself really hard with big things I want to achieve, and it doesn't really work.

I have a poster / document with 5 areas of my life that I want to work on: with 1, 3, 12 month and 5 and 10 year milestones. I'm slowly working on them, and moving forward, but not making as much progress as I would like. I know pretty much exactly what I have to do (which steps to take), but it's hard when I'm depressed. Additionally now, I want to get back into the deep state, because life was way easier and more effortless then. Working on those areas of life was much easier and I wasn't worrying so much anymore. Things and people came into my life very easily during those times, which I really struggled to get in the years before.

@Demeter Thanks for the insights. I've heard about the imperial research and have even attended a lecture by one of their main researchers in London last year. I'll check out their papers and articles to see their methods. Currently, I live in another European country. There is some studies around LSD and Psilocybin for depression here. I'll look into it more and talk to my doc if I could participate somehow. I'll check out Grof's book took. Yes it does seem that the bad trips caused a release to feel good things. It felt like a special mystic experience. I guess I'm seeking that state too much at the moment and can't accept what is happening.

@arlin Yes human primates have feelings which create the illusion of free will. It doesn't mean you should do stupid things.

Good critical thinking. Nice work.

These are big claims. I would love to see the citations or supporting evidence for your statements. It would be great if you could contact a leading quantum physicist and tell him how you see the world. Or write a paper on the topic explaining your view and submit it for peer-review. Other people in the field will review your work, test your hypotheses and comment on it.

Maybe you are right. I have a genuine question. I seriously want to know the answer. Do you think it is possible that something happens or you have a new insight, which totally changes how you view truth? Would you be open to another possibility if you came to the realization or someone was able to convince you about it?

I don't think I said that ego is "truth". I suggested to explore the model where the non-dual mystical states are just a temporary experience. It's a model for me, not truth itself. As you said before, truth is not a description or a model. Models point to something. I agree. I advise people to go all in on your teachings and other teachings and find out for themselves. Find out what works for them. Maybe your model will bring them further, maybe not. Only their direct experience can show. Maybe some day the bubble will pop. Anyway, I made my point and I think it's more than enough food for thought from me.

I've had those mystical states. I was following Leo and this forum and I used to describe those states through the model that others used here: it's conscioussness. I used the conscioussness model for multiple years. I did all the practices suggested in this forum. I went deep. A few months ago I changed my model: now I describe myself as a human primate and everything that comes with it. It turned out that I didn't loose anything. This model can describe all those mystical experiences too and additionally other people have cross-checked this model and have been able to describe reality accurately through this model. I'm not saying that my model is right. I'm just saying that it might be beneficial to consider other models. If more reviewed evidence comes out to support the conscioussness model, I'll be all over it. I can see the benefit of using the conscioussness model, and I suggest that it's not the only option. I agree. Truth just is. When we try to describe the truth, we have to use language or some model, so that others can understand what we are talking about. Model: this describes reality. It can be "everything is conscioussness" or "everything in the world is material" or "we are apes" or "everything is atoms" or "everything is nothing" or "everything is made out of apple pie" or "everything is an illusion" etc. Truth: that's reality. The model points to reality. What I'm trying to say is that there can be different models that all point to truth. And they all have a place to be. Some models might be a bit better at predicting reality. I'm suggesting that it might be good to consider other models of reality that people are not used to hearing here.

My point is: to say something is truth one has to consider multiple models of describing the truth. Model 1: non-dual state is the natural state Model 2: non-dual state is just a temporary experience Now, to find out which model describes reality better, we have to test both possibilities. I feel like many people find evidence for model 1 in their experiences (psychedelic trips, meditation, self-inquiry) and that's awesome. What I'm suggesting is that maybe more people should consider exploring all their experiences day-to-day and questioning if their experiences fit into model 2.

Have you considered the possibility that the non-dual state is just a temporary experience and the "ego state" is the truth, the natural state?

Obvious answers are often the truth. Truth is simple. You are on a good track. Question everything. Don't let channeling delude you.

@Javfly33 Question everything you were lead to believe about awakening here on the forum or elsewhere. Question your definition of "awakening" and what you think it will be like. Question why you even want an "awakening". Food for thought.

I think the point of the original poster still stands. Do you guys think Zzenn brings up at least 1 valid point when questioning Leo's teachings? Or do you think that everything Leo teaches in his recent videos and most recent 'awakening' video is correct?

How do you know that your truth is true and what someone else says is false?

Would you rather spend the next 5 years trying to achieve the impossible, trying to reach the state where you can heal people by being God and trying to materialize things? Or would you rather spend the next 5 years making money or studying to become a doctor? Which path do you think will more likely lead to the results you want? I suggest you look at reality and seeing what other people have achieved. A lot of people have made money and became doctors. That's the real path.

What exactly? You could acquire money and could buy or build a lot of things, you don't have to image them. You can strive to become a licensed doctor, get an education, go to medical school and then legitimately heal people.

What kind of things do you want to do? What "reality altering stuff" do you want to do?

I would like to know this too. @Leo Gura, how do you feel and what do you experience on a day when you are sober, or even 1-2 weeks after your last trip?

Good observation!