Zigzag Idiot

@Sempiternity Just now read your post. Very similar,,,,

I’ve observed a specific state of consciousness in a few different people on occasions, They had nothing about them that triggered other people. It looks like innocence + no mind+ neutrality +presence+ trust. Maybe it could be called simple Love. On one occasion an aggressive pit bull suddenly “lost steam” when approaching one person who was in this state. It has the same effect on aggressive, mouthy people, as well. They just become dumbstruck. In a sense. I feel like I’ve experienced this state a few times but unfortunately It’s not spontaneously available to me. I also feel that in times past my state of consciousness on a few few occasions was very triggering to others. Has anyone else experienced this subtle but very definite condition or state of consciousness that seems to neutralize aggressive people? I’m posting this because it would be a hypothetical form of self defense, that is, if someone were capable of spontaneously producing this state. This reminds me very much also of a vivid dream Maurice Nicoll had which he described. To summarize. In his dream he witnessed a man who was in charge of some recruits and they were all being rude and nasty towards him but he seemed impervious. He said the man in his dream had a curious power about him. He then realized what it was. He said that he saw that this was a man incapable of violence. This was what produced this curious power that he had about him.

A good talk. Good night,,,,

Even though their songs sometimes don’t make much sense and they’re a bunch of squares, it doesn’t matter because they’ve got good harmony.

I enjoy listening to some of Martin Butlers podcasts more than once. Below are some quotes from Maurice Nicoll. THE PRECURSOR TO EXTERNAL CONSIDERING II “We dislike people, for one reason, because they behave mechanically—that is, always saying the same things, behaving in the same way—and we do not realize that they dislike us for the same reason. That is to say, they dislike us for our mechanicalness...But we do not realize that we or they cannot speak or act much differently. All this wrong attitude is based on the illusion that we ourselves and others are conscious people.” V. 4, p. 1290 EXTERNAL CONSIDERING “External considering is thinking of others. It is one of the few things in the Work that we are actually told to do...If you have taken an album of good photographs of yourself through long self-observation, then you will not have to look far in it to find in yourself what you object to so much in the other person and then you will be able to put yourself in the other person’s position...Remember that when you find the same thing in yourself that you are blaming in someone else it has the magical effect of cancelling the whole situation out. This is real ‘forgiving.’ ” V. 1, p. 259 EXTERNAL CONSIDERING II “External considering can only begin, in its practical application, with putting yourself in the other person’s place, and looking out, as it were, of the other person’s mind and consciousness at yourself as he sees you. So do not think that external considering is merely doing something for the other person.” V. 1, p. 268 EXTERNAL CONSIDERING III “The object of the Work is to become more conscious. Self-observation makes you more conscious of yourself: external considering makes you more conscious also of others. Through external considering, things you were not conscious of before are revealed to you.” V. 1, p. 265 80 MUTUAL EXCLUSIVITY “To put yourself in another person’s position calls upon your whole understanding. It requires a directed effort of the mind and feelings and not merely once but time and again. And you will certainly be quite incapable of doing this if you are always preoccupied with your own personal problems and woes and with the way you are being treated—that is, if you are always taking your life from the stand- point of internal considering...But external considering is utterly dif- ferent. It cleanses you. It frees you...An hour of external considering will free you from the effects of weeks of internal considering.” V. 1, pp. 265, 268

Ken Wilber has summarized this as how one has to develop a healthy functioning ego and then transcend it. Is there a need for more conversations around this idea here on the forum. Developing self esteem followed by at some point burning away self importance. It’s in the Teachings of don Juan Matus. To go in search of a petty tyrant. Someone who has no empathy and will be relentless in pushing every bottom they can find. Arnold Keyserlings interpretation of this is that mathematically there are only so many ways you can be offended so the sooner all of them have been experienced and then processed, the sooner one will reach a full Self Realization. At what point do we give up complaining about our victimhood but instead thank our tormentors for giving us the opportunity to work on ourselves,,, and practice forgiveness,,,?

I agree but this approach doesn't work 100% on all our issues.. and I would argue rhetorically that the shadow or parts of the shadow will remain in place. That's just my opinion though and I could be wrong. @mandyjw I do love and appreciate your positive vibes. Thank you so much for that! The positive tone of your reply made my day a little brighter and without doubt that's a reality that trump's my opinions and theories.

- “Run from what's comfortable. Forget safety. Live where you fear to live. Destroy your reputation. Be notorious. I have tried prudent planning long enough. From now on I'll be mad.”~ Rumi @mandyjw Your Rumi quote reminds me though of how we continually run head-on into our own fracturedness. Not meaning to single you out and project this onto you but maintain this applies to everyone. The need for integration definitely applies to me. Isn't this fracturedness the basis for the need to integrate and one of the first things encountered by anyone who begins the path of self actualization? Some more than others but definitely a component of the work towards accomplishing Individuation, a core component of Actualization. To go with the flow or to transcend and include,,,,, I'm all for,,, But how can it be denied that we have don't have numerous contradictory elements within us in both our animal instincts and also in our childhood conditioning? Mechanical expression of negativity,,,, Isn't this also a universal issue to work on among all who walk the path? I say all this holding myself as the poster child of fragmentedness but maintain it's universal among all who walk the path of awakening. Is there anyone here on this forum who can claim this doesn't apply to them to some degree? @mandyjw Correct me please if I've badly misinterpreted what you've written or wrongly changed your intended frame of reference,,,, @fridjonk I accidentally hit your name button and android doesn't let me erase name tags. I appreciate your input though.

Conventional people scare me. They disturb and depress me if I dwell on how they take in the world. The collective ego rules their decisions for the most part it seems and it’s why they’re capable of about anything. They walk around in spiritual sleep justifying and labeling everything before them dualistically as either good or bad. I shit on their capricious God. That’s an outrageous thing to say but I don’t care. Their God is not my God. But look at me now infected by that darkness and stupidity. These are things a Super Idiot or an Arch Idiot would say. Maybe it’s out my system now for a while. If I had good sense this post would get hid tomorrow morning when I wake up. I’ve reflected too much today on lives lived in institutions and the mind numbing, soul crushing effect this has on these unfortunate people. In his latest video Leo discussed Wisdom. From one of my favorite websites devoted to wisdom comes this definition- Wisdom is the ability to live coherently in a chaotic world. It requires the "knowledge behind the knowledge". http://www.chanceandchoice.com/course-overview/introduction/ And some inspired poetry from this site as well. Penned by Arnold Keyserling. Sorrow No one would make the decisive step without sorrow and doubt. But taking that step has nothing to do with sadness. It is shed like the skin of a snake. The darkness is able to generate the right reason, one more difficult, but also better, than the next. But it will not always be so. Some day love will shine upon you. Then sorrow will simply be the undertone of the resulting harmony. The path is there from the very beginning. Sometimes it is easier, sometimes harder. But one thing is essential: the depth emerges from the strength of sorrow. Without sorrow there is no course; without the course the path is not passable. Mourn – not over the self – but over what is yet to be done. Each day brings further sorrows, and eventually you will reach the original cause of sorrow. Then you can finally begin the ascent back. Rejoice in your sorrow, for the darkness will not remain with you much longer. Community of Joy Whoever trusts in himself, and respects every friend as a co-worker, will find a community of joy, which in the past was a rare exception and the lot of only a few.

Fear of the Next One by Dr. Jim Rosen ©2021 Dr. Jim Rosen If you've ever had a panic attack, you know what I'm talking about. You can be going along fine, and then seemingly out of nowhere, you're struck. When it happens, it's so intense and frightening, from then on you're afraid of having another one. This "fear of the next one" can create a vicious cycle. Panic is a very high level of anxiety. But there are many situations in life that generate moderate, normal levels of anxiety. If you've had a panic attack in the past, you tend to misinterpret and "awfulize" these normal anxieties. Fear steps in and you immediately leap to the thought, "Oh no! Here it comes again!" Your fear reaction heightens the anxiety and bumps it up to a much higher level. So now you're really scared. And there goes your heart rate and that rapid breathing, etc, and the fear of dying. But you're not dying. As frightening as they feel, panic attacks are very treatable. You can expect success. But you need to discriminate. A first important step in your treatment is learning to recognize and tolerate the normal levels of anxiety. I was recently accused of having anger issues. This was from a person who does have anger issues. They just projected their own issue out onto me. My chief feature or blindspot is fear. Particularly in the form of doubt ,,, about everything. This is not to say I never get angry. I do sometimes. It’s nearly a full time job disguising my cowardice but I’ve been doing it a long time. On very rare occasions though I feel courageous and it feels good. It feels clean and natural and doubt is nowhere to be seen.

A good song for processing anger. An old song with an eerie melody that I had forgotten about.

Fred Flintstone portraying Al Pacino’s role in Scarface. Wouldn’t this apply as recontextualion?

Another Enneagram resource. Could be helpful in typing oneself,,,,

Below is a post I made a while back concerning b!indsposts or chief feature as it's called in the Fourth Way. think Red Hawk referred to one's 'chief feature' as it's called in the Fourth Way also as one's 'blind spot'. There was a similar thing in Scientology. I think it was called one's 'ruin' I certainly don't like to group The Fourth Way and Scientology together, though. Scientology is definitely a cult and as a general rule Fourth Way Teachers will try to run people off by offending them or other ways. Gurdjieff did this as well to insure that only people who were really sincere about working on themselves would be the ones to stick around, regarding whatever bullshit they had to put up with. Side note- This has to do with the Title of his magnum opus- Beelzebub's Tales To His Grandson. Being offensive in this way, Beelzebub aka The Devil, guaranteed Religous people would stay away and for the most part only the highly educated would be drawn in out of curiosity or as he put it, if they had a magnetic center. Someone with magnetic center is someone who has a natural inclination for gathering knowledge as well as working on oneself. Back to chief feature. Jane Heap, a student of Gurdjieff's, boiled it down to a short list. She said chief feature is usually based on one of five things- Greed, Fear, Sex, Lying, or self Pride. So chief feature, in being also a part of the makeup of one's psychological blind spot has to do with how we usually react. If anyone reading this is aware of the phenomena where people see one another's foibles better than they can see their own,, This is the ball park, so to speak. If you tell someone what their chief feature is. They won't believe you,, Through radical honesty and long self observation, one has to learn it for themselves. The goal isn't to be rid of it but to know it and be it's Master. One's chief feature is said also to be a distorted reflection of a personal virtue. For instance, fear becomes courage,,, Chief feature can also be a combination of Greed-Fear-Lying-Sex-self Pride. One has to be willing to observe over a long period of time, one's own habitual reactions. This process is definitely linked to the Science of Idiotism.

So far as dealing with one,s inner critic. I highly recommended this 20 page pamphlet for anyone on the ‘path’. It’s only $4. Only available here https://shop.diamondapproach.org/products/work-on-the-superego I’m pretty sure.

I’ve read about all of Hawkins books except Letting Go, but I bet it is really good. Soul without Shame by Byron Brown was a book that I got a lot of good out of.

I loaded these on my browser last night but never hit the button. oops I was wrong The YouTube Leo posted in his blog is really good,,, disturbing though. This is it.

In the Fourth way cosmology everything eats and gets eaten. The term reciprocal maintenance is used. If we live a good life we get eaten by Archangels. The ray of creation it’s called and it’s makeup parallels or resembles the musical octave. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_of_Creation Years ago I learned about the notion that if you have a problem that’s bothering you, you need another problem that just as perplexing. A problem of comparable magnitude. Once you have 2 problems of comparable magnitude you can reflect on how well you had it when there was only one problem.

Gallows humor ,,,,

For others here who find themselves near this territory. The following two books might give some comfort. Interior Castle by Teresa of Avila and Dark Night of the Soul from St. John of the Cross.

@Preety_India Take heart. You're not as far gone as I am. You seem to have come out of your shell compared to when I first joined. Don't be to hard on yourself and go too far with self criticism. You are loved.

Well I went to my first Narcotics Anonymous meeting. It's structured exactly like Alcoholic's Anonymous. This twelve step program is definitely one that works. I believe what makes them work so well is the spiritual aspect of it. God is defined very loosely but is still a center point around which many aspects of the program is focused. There is a lot of humility and expressions of love and support. All groups are different though depending on the dynamic from each group of unique people. This was a good group for sure. Ninety percent seemed to be there voluntarily. I was trying to shake hands and they were all trying to hug me which is fine. I normally don't get into hugging mode until someone has died and then I want to hug everyone I'm around if I catch them standing still or approaching me like they want to hug. I really need to work on myself in this regard and be more open and natural with hugging. I've heard that some groups where most everyone is there because of a court mandate can sometimes be an absolute joke in regards maintaining sobriety. They turn into meetings for making new and better connections,,, but tonight's group wasn't like that. They were all sincere people. I could feel myself crawfishing in a hurry though. Not because I don't want to continue to be clean but because I dread the thought of these meetings taking up a part of my life. That sounds terrible I know. I don't physically crave meth like I used to crave alcohol and I'm not depressed either. Meetings like this used to be good for me when I craved alcohol and I was depressed and overwhelmed by life. But even then I got tired of going to meetings. Partly because I did attend some that weren't very good. The group dynamic that is. Being that I don't really crave meth and that I actually have good days and enjoy life I can see me having my fill in a hurry and just dropping out. There was actually a couple of people there that would probably be great sponcers. I just feel resistant to get this ball to rolling. This organization still considers cannabis to be harmful, not to mention psychedelics. In a few weeks I would probably start running my unconventional mouth and corrupt some of these good folks and I don't want to do that. I know this probably sounds arrogant in a way or that I think I'm above it. I'm not. Don't know how to explain myself. I'm not desperate enough... That sounds bad and not quite accurate. I'm too unconventional. There's truth in that but it still doesn' t do justice for an adequate explantation.. I should just shut up about this I guess. All I'm doing is incriminating myself. In a way,,, The test is going to be - HOW MY LIFE GOES. Plain and simple I guess. I did go ahead and pay $12 for the NA 'big book 'though. I enjoyed reading the AA big book years ago, with all the personal stories even though most of them were pretty sad. They were very real though. I'm not going to make up my mind tonight though. Believe I'll start some reading,,,, I feel like a Squirming Idiot,,,

@fridjonk Thanks brother man. Put in a day of fairly strenuous physical labor. Should sleep a little better tonight. Hopefully. Going to my first Narcotics Anonymous meeting in a few minutes. I'll see how that goes and report back later.