Zigzag Idiot

@ted73104 There's a wide mixture as you can imagine. Many of these websites have the distinct smell of fundamentalists trying to insert doubt. This particular site from a Gnostic standpoint isn't bad- http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html. If you’re possibly interested books, I highly recommend these two for former christians who have been disillusioned by fundamentalists dogma and lunacy — The Wisdom Jesus by Cynthia Bourgeault God Is Dissappointed In You by Mark Russell As bad as this sounds it’s an accurate yet highly irreverent and hilarious paraphrasing of the Bible. A paraphrasing by Mark Russell of logia 102 from The Gospel of Thomas - “Don’t worry too much about what the outside of the cup looks like, You only drink what’s inside.” “Do not let fundamentalists come between you and God’s Love. They are like dogs guarding a cow’s trough. They protect food they don’t eat from animals who are starving.”

@ted73104 I agree about the cult of fundamentalists,,,, I was just yanking on their chain a little. Didn’t the Jews kind of shit on JC also in the long run and call him a delusional visionary? I abandoned fundamentalist ‘churchianity’ but have found good things in the Gospel of Thomas as well as ACIM. A Jesus who teaches being nonjudgmental, forgiving, peaceful and overlooking others transgressions. Like an older brother who says just live and let live. This is not a Jesus that wants to be worshipped,,,,

I would ask God why he needed to let his boy Jesus get nailed to the cross like some kind of Cosmic scapegoat. And then say it was for my sinfulness. I wasn't even born yet. That just makes no damn sense at all.

Sounds good to me!

@ted73104 Excuse me, but God told me to quote Cynthia Bourgeault . Also, she, that is God, said being is the key word here. The repetitive motion of finding oneself through Identification (even true and worthy descriptions) keeps the being energy just below the critical velocity needed to escape the gravitational field of narrative selfhood.” - Cynthia Bourgeault Just doing as I was told. Respectfully, Zigzag Idiot.

There's a joke thats told among carpenters. Someone will say that if they ever fall out of an airplane that hopefully they would be holding on to an air hose or an extension cord because the damn things are always going to hang up on something,,,,,. @MuadDib mentioning his becoming reinterested in skydiving made me think of that. My fear of heights has grown as I've gotten older. In 2013, I reroofed one of our old barns and climbing to the breathtaking height of 18-20 feet gave me panic attacks. At the time I had a 2 cd set of Rumi that was read by Coleman Barks. Playing it as I went about my carpentry seemed to help a little bit. Still on the subject of me being nervous and highstrung. That weighted blanket I bought the other day seems to really be helping me get better sleep. The last couple of nights anyhow. If you , the reader, have trouble with insomnia. I recommend trying one. The weight in the one I have comes from tiny glass beads that are sewn in between the layers of the blanket. It feels like sleeping under an armoured vest. Amphetamines have always had a calming effect on me. (Except when used heavily, as I recently discovered, unfortunately), The calming affect has caused me to speculate that I probably could have been diagnosed as either add or adhd in childhood. In addition to my self-diagnosis as an adult of being on the autism spectrum. A few people who know me well are possibly vigorously nodding in agreement,,, The trouble is ,, my age. Asperger's and ADHD diagnoses were not being made when I was a kid. It's probably a good thing. Chances are I would have played up being an unfortunate victim of those maladies and rode them for all they were worth. Doing this might have prevented all those wonderful episodes in my life that were referred to as being of a character building nature. Not that I've really ended up with all that much character, either, as it's turned out. Oh well,,, Enough with all this self absorbtion. Time to read or to make some remarks on the forum until sleep overcomes me. Goodnight,,,

Found a Gurdjieff material blog spot with very many interesting links within it. http://mastergurdjieff.blogspot.com/2014/?m=1 @Petals Rereading that great material you shared last April revealed to me a degree of my own somnambulism of which I’m still under the influence of at times. Even though I’ve had awakenings in the past, I’m still prone to naps,,,,

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Gurdjieff George Gurdjieff - A contemporary acquaintance of Valentine Thomberg. https://www.gurdjieff.org/lipsey1.htm

@SamC I can relate, Very similar to my history with Centrring Prayer meditation. Consulting The I Ching specifically a revised edition called The Oracle of the Cosmic Way often gives me some pretty good guidance even when a part of me has continued on with not so smart habits. The oracle isn’t concerned so much with issues of morality and societal concerns but is always helpful in steering me away from blatant and not so blatant forms of egoic corruption. I gain in stability and groundedness when I am able to force myself to go through 2 twenty minute Centering Prayer meditations a day but it feels like I have to really bully myself to do it and then there are days when it’s just not on the table at all. So I continue to consult the I CHING on a fairly regular basis.

I can't believe I lost Cynthia Bourgeault's new book Eye of the Heart. I had read only half of it in which she already shared where the Kingdom of Heaven is using Gurdjieff's Hydrogen scale and the Ray of creation. She said the kingdom is found at world 24. Take what I say with a grain of salt because I've slept since I read this a couple of months ago ,,,, I found it though. To translate, this would be the inner world of a person who has integrated and individuated along with whats reffered to in the Work as purifying the emotional center. This is someone who doesn't judge and is conscious to the point where they're basically incapable of commiting violence. This is one of the best descriptions I've heard in regards to higher Consciousness. A fully Awakened person is incapable of violence! They're not complainers,,, They don't bitch or fly off the handle in a reactionary way if unpleasant events are encountered in their life situation. So encountering the kingdom of Heaven is an inside job. The kingdom is within. It's good to have a journal and express oneself. Even if it does amount to bitching about something. Maybe that's what it takes sometimes to process and let it go. Whatever it is. It's also a way of letting others into your inner world. As cringe worthy as that can be at times ultimately it means integration of your personal fragmentedness. Why is that good? Its the path to having your being. To fully be yourself, flaws included. To be completely at home in yourself. There's a tricky thing in regards to being fragmented. People who are fragmented most often don't fully realise their own fragmentedness. They don't see how it leaves them at the mercy of those who are eager to manipulate them. On the path to higher awareness, forgiveness through understanding is mandatory. More awareness will not be granted if you cannot forgive those who are asleep. I found a weighted blanket on the clearance isle this morning. I thought it might help me with insomnia. The thought of Temple Grandin came to mind with her design of the squeeze chute made for the humane handling of cattle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Grandin

Sounds awfully close to objectless awareness or nonconceptual awareness. These two phrases are used in association with Centering Prayer meditation and Zazen practice.

Just passing on info on 2 different online courses that look interesting Discover the Truth of Who and What You Are For the very first time, the Ridhwan School will be offering a deeper level of the Diamond Approach teaching online. “Lightness of Being” is a six-part series that will run over six weekends between February and August 2021. It will explore the lataif (plural of latifa), those subtle qualities of our being that invite us to experience the pure, unshakable truth of what we are, which helps dispel the belief that we are individuals who are somehow separate from our spirit. Each latifa takes us beyond our ordinary cognitive world into the realm of lived, embodied experience of subtler qualities, allowing us to touch into our inner seeing, inner hearing, even our inner tasting. This in turn makes our experiences richer and fuller, allowing the human spirit to thrive and expand. An Introductory Experience for New Students Though the lataif are exquisitely subtle, they are nevertheless relatively easy to access and can be experienced in both dual and non-dual states of being. For this reason, “Lightness of Being” is both an excellent introduction to the Diamond Approach – as well as an opportunity for seasoned spiritual seekers to sink more deeply into each of the qualities and to taste the depth this path has to offer. The series will also be required for all students who enroll in our first-ever Diamond Approach Online group, expected to begin meeting in Fall 2021. Since COVID-19 began, we moved all current in-person groups online for the sake of safety. The kinds of experiences that emerged from this transition have been inspiring, so we feel there is real possibility for offering an ongoing group in this format. At the heart of this offering is our intention to develop an international group of committed students from many cultures and backgrounds who can continue with the group for some time. This is a novel opportunity for those who want to engage with this path in an ongoing way but are unable to participate in our usual, preferred in-person style. This group is for new students only. https://online.diamondapproach.org/lob-lightness-of-being-series-lb-lob-wi21/ Spiritual Gifts from the Imaginal Realm By Cynthia Bourgeault Thursday, February 18 - Thursday, April 01 Cynthia Bourgeault is a modern-day mystic, Episcopal priest, writer, and internationally known retreat leader. She divides her time between solitude at her seaside hermitage in Maine and a demanding schedule traveling globally to teach and spread the recovery of the Christian contemplative and Wisdom paths. She is profiled in our Living Spiritual Teachers project, and this will be the 12th e-course she has presented through Spirituality & Practice. We are excited about this offering because it delves into some ancient Wisdom roadmaps that many of us may not be familiar with and yet which hold the key to understanding what's happening in our world (why are we so polarized, unable to take the steps needed to address global problems?) and where the path of healing lies. These perennial maps speak of mutually nurturing realms of being bound together by a continuous energy exchange. In this e-course, Cynthia will specifically explore the gifts of the imaginal realm that can help us adopt a larger perspective and make a difference today using the cosmic assistance available to us all. She will be introducing us to the teachings in her latest book, Eye of the Heart: A Spiritual Journey into the Imaginal Realm, but approaching the material afresh — cognizant that we are in a worldwide pandemic and that the e-course is coming to you during Lent. This e-course will begin the Thursday after Ash Wednesday, February 18, and conclude on Maundy Thursday, April 1. You will receive: 13 emails on Mondays and Thursdays with an essay by Cynthia Bourgeault, a text and questions for your conscious reflection, and a spiritual practice to try; access to the online Practice Circle (open 24/7 to accommodate people from all time zones) where you can post comments on the teachings and the practices. Cynthia will be in the Practice Circle to respond to your experiences and encourage your further explorations. a link to join us on Zoom twice during the e-course (March 8 and March 29, 1 pm PT / 4 pm ET both days) to hear Cynthia address our comments and questions. At the risk of sounding too casual, let us say that in these times, we need all the help we can get. Join us to discover how to tap into and offer some cosmic help more intentionally. https://www.spiritualityandpractice.com/ecourses/course/view/10285/spiritual-gifts-from-the-imaginal-realm

I like the distinction made by some in the Fourth way Work between acquired conscience and awakened conscience. Acquired conscience is equated with morality which changes over time and between different cultures. Awakened Conscience is claimed to be the same among all who possess it. One statement that frames this is that Awakened Conscience is the intelligence of the universe. Cultures are an enforcer of acquired conscience and is usually what we all are loaded full of in our childhood conditioning to different degrees. Maybe in the future when there are cultures with a center of gravity in tier two SD, this conditioning will be closer to awakened conscience. But now I’m speculating,,,,

Some good answers and food for thought in these reply’s. I’ve recently had to out myself and fess up to a meth-amphetimine habit that I thought I could get away with. This is only one example of where my self deception comes in and swallows the whole frame of reference posed by the question. It’s still a good question though,,,, Maybe by integrating all the methods and reply’s that’s been given, people like myself may stand a chance,,, See Leo’s 3 part series on self deception,,,,

@mmKay Yes, indeed. Not to forget possums and eccentrics like Marlon Brando’s character Lee Clayton.

Rules? In a knife fight?,,,,

@Sempiternity Just now read your post. Very similar,,,,

I’ve observed a specific state of consciousness in a few different people on occasions, They had nothing about them that triggered other people. It looks like innocence + no mind+ neutrality +presence+ trust. Maybe it could be called simple Love. On one occasion an aggressive pit bull suddenly “lost steam” when approaching one person who was in this state. It has the same effect on aggressive, mouthy people, as well. They just become dumbstruck. In a sense. I feel like I’ve experienced this state a few times but unfortunately It’s not spontaneously available to me. I also feel that in times past my state of consciousness on a few few occasions was very triggering to others. Has anyone else experienced this subtle but very definite condition or state of consciousness that seems to neutralize aggressive people? I’m posting this because it would be a hypothetical form of self defense, that is, if someone were capable of spontaneously producing this state. This reminds me very much also of a vivid dream Maurice Nicoll had which he described. To summarize. In his dream he witnessed a man who was in charge of some recruits and they were all being rude and nasty towards him but he seemed impervious. He said the man in his dream had a curious power about him. He then realized what it was. He said that he saw that this was a man incapable of violence. This was what produced this curious power that he had about him.

A good talk. Good night,,,,

Even though their songs sometimes don’t make much sense and they’re a bunch of squares, it doesn’t matter because they’ve got good harmony.

I enjoy listening to some of Martin Butlers podcasts more than once. Below are some quotes from Maurice Nicoll. THE PRECURSOR TO EXTERNAL CONSIDERING II “We dislike people, for one reason, because they behave mechanically—that is, always saying the same things, behaving in the same way—and we do not realize that they dislike us for the same reason. That is to say, they dislike us for our mechanicalness...But we do not realize that we or they cannot speak or act much differently. All this wrong attitude is based on the illusion that we ourselves and others are conscious people.” V. 4, p. 1290 EXTERNAL CONSIDERING “External considering is thinking of others. It is one of the few things in the Work that we are actually told to do...If you have taken an album of good photographs of yourself through long self-observation, then you will not have to look far in it to find in yourself what you object to so much in the other person and then you will be able to put yourself in the other person’s position...Remember that when you find the same thing in yourself that you are blaming in someone else it has the magical effect of cancelling the whole situation out. This is real ‘forgiving.’ ” V. 1, p. 259 EXTERNAL CONSIDERING II “External considering can only begin, in its practical application, with putting yourself in the other person’s place, and looking out, as it were, of the other person’s mind and consciousness at yourself as he sees you. So do not think that external considering is merely doing something for the other person.” V. 1, p. 268 EXTERNAL CONSIDERING III “The object of the Work is to become more conscious. Self-observation makes you more conscious of yourself: external considering makes you more conscious also of others. Through external considering, things you were not conscious of before are revealed to you.” V. 1, p. 265 80 MUTUAL EXCLUSIVITY “To put yourself in another person’s position calls upon your whole understanding. It requires a directed effort of the mind and feelings and not merely once but time and again. And you will certainly be quite incapable of doing this if you are always preoccupied with your own personal problems and woes and with the way you are being treated—that is, if you are always taking your life from the stand- point of internal considering...But external considering is utterly dif- ferent. It cleanses you. It frees you...An hour of external considering will free you from the effects of weeks of internal considering.” V. 1, pp. 265, 268

Ken Wilber has summarized this as how one has to develop a healthy functioning ego and then transcend it. Is there a need for more conversations around this idea here on the forum. Developing self esteem followed by at some point burning away self importance. It’s in the Teachings of don Juan Matus. To go in search of a petty tyrant. Someone who has no empathy and will be relentless in pushing every bottom they can find. Arnold Keyserlings interpretation of this is that mathematically there are only so many ways you can be offended so the sooner all of them have been experienced and then processed, the sooner one will reach a full Self Realization. At what point do we give up complaining about our victimhood but instead thank our tormentors for giving us the opportunity to work on ourselves,,, and practice forgiveness,,,?

I agree but this approach doesn't work 100% on all our issues.. and I would argue rhetorically that the shadow or parts of the shadow will remain in place. That's just my opinion though and I could be wrong. @mandyjw I do love and appreciate your positive vibes. Thank you so much for that! The positive tone of your reply made my day a little brighter and without doubt that's a reality that trump's my opinions and theories.

- “Run from what's comfortable. Forget safety. Live where you fear to live. Destroy your reputation. Be notorious. I have tried prudent planning long enough. From now on I'll be mad.”~ Rumi @mandyjw Your Rumi quote reminds me though of how we continually run head-on into our own fracturedness. Not meaning to single you out and project this onto you but maintain this applies to everyone. The need for integration definitely applies to me. Isn't this fracturedness the basis for the need to integrate and one of the first things encountered by anyone who begins the path of self actualization? Some more than others but definitely a component of the work towards accomplishing Individuation, a core component of Actualization. To go with the flow or to transcend and include,,,,, I'm all for,,, But how can it be denied that we have don't have numerous contradictory elements within us in both our animal instincts and also in our childhood conditioning? Mechanical expression of negativity,,,, Isn't this also a universal issue to work on among all who walk the path? I say all this holding myself as the poster child of fragmentedness but maintain it's universal among all who walk the path of awakening. Is there anyone here on this forum who can claim this doesn't apply to them to some degree? @mandyjw Correct me please if I've badly misinterpreted what you've written or wrongly changed your intended frame of reference,,,, @fridjonk I accidentally hit your name button and android doesn't let me erase name tags. I appreciate your input though.