Zigzag Idiot

I just love this guy. What an intellect as well as an original thinker! Back in the mid 1990’s I had a 30 minute vhs tape of him laying out his theory about 2012 and the transcendental object at the end of time. I had no idea about his extensive knowledge until years later. Being exposed to many of his edited short YouTube’s definitely furthered my appreciation. His ability to speak of the cuff about a wide range topics is also impressive as well.

I’m glad I don’t have to do this anymore.

If it’s based on empathy but is doing nothing for alleviating others suffering, I might put it in the category of unnecessary suffering. I’ve used this categorization of types of suffering for the last 5 years or so. It’s Fourth Way sourced material. In Talks on Beelzebub's Tales, Bennett distinguishes four types of suffering - Unnecessary Suffering, Unavoidable Suffering, Voluntary Suffering and Intentional Suffering. Lets have a look at each of these to see if they can help our understanding: The first is Unnecessary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we incur because of our unreasonable attitudes and expectations towards others, from our ill-will, hatred and rejection of others, from doubt, possessiveness, arrogance and self pity. In other words, suffering arising from our self-importance. The second is Unavoidable Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that comes to us by accident or from events beyond our control, such as interpersonal conflicts, war, disaster, disease or death. Third, we have Voluntary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish a personal aim, such as an athlete who disciplines himself to win a race, or a student who labours to get good grades. And finally we have Intentional Suffering. According to Bennett, this would be the kind of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish an impersonal or altruistic goal, one that is directed more towards service to others or to the Work, and not for any personal gain. Bennett assumes that this is what Gurdjieff meant by Intentional Suffering.

We’re two natured beings. Part animal and part angel. Neither one being complete. In the beginning when we think we know we need to recognize that we’re upside down and the certainty of our views need to be reassessed. We become completed beings through solar coating. Our own conscious efforts. We can become wise through lunar coating but to become Self Realized we must undergo through our own conscious efforts, solar coating. Solar Coating polishes off the angelic part of us. In becoming right side up the ego is metabolized by essence with the angel at the helm. Essential realization is just one of many phenomena that’s possible. If you start crying that’s fairly normal. Along with a recognition of a new vividness in perception. When "Normal" Traits are Narcissistic Phenomena Everyone knows that he has some measure of selfishness, self-reference, a need to be seen and appreciated, a deep wish for esteem and admiration from others, and some distortion in his self-concepts. Although we are accustomed to thinking of these traits as normal, they are in fact narcissistic phenomena. They are universal to all non-realized individuals, reflecting the fundamental narcissism that is the result of not knowing oneself at a deep level. This is what we call the “narcissism of every day life” or “fundamental narcissism.” The Point of Existence, pg. 26 Requirement for the Resolution of Fundamental Narcissism The issues of basic trust and the surrender that it engenders are not specific to the work on narcissism. However, some resolution of these issues is necessary for the surrender involved in slowing down and ceasing ego activity. The realization of this quality of love, which we call Living Daylight or Loving Light, resolves these issues. The presence of the Living Daylight helps us to let go of the empty shell, to allow the narcissistic wound and accept the narcissistic emptiness. This boundless, loving presence makes it easier for the self to relax and cease activity. One also comes to understand that it is this love which actually acts, and not the self. It is the melting action of this love that finally dissolves the ego activity. Our discussion of the quality of Living Daylight is necessarily short, but it illuminates the deep dynamics underlying the activity which perpetuates the identity structure. We can see why the resolution of fundamental narcissism can come about only with a deep spiritual orientation. Realization requires a fundamental surrender of the self. The Point of Existence, pg. 344 Perpetuation of Narcissism Our discussion and critique of the views of the self and narcissism in the theories of Kohut and other psychologists has established the following: 1. Viewing the depth of the self as primarily emotional fixates the self on a partial manifestation of its nature, and hence, perpetuates narcissism. 2. Identifying the self with the body also fixates the self on a partial manifestation of it, which both causes and is the outcome of fundamental narcissism. 3. Ego activity, which is the dynamic property of the center of the ego-self, perpetuates the disconnection of the self from the deeper truth of its Being, and hence, both causes and is caused by fundamental narcissism. 4. Identification with mental representations, or a psychic structure patterned by such representations, is the most fundamental cause of narcissistic disturbance. 5. Fundamental narcissism, the specific and most central manifestation of the disconnection from the essential core of the self, the presence of Being, underlies all other forms of narcissism. 6. Pathological narcissism is a distortion or an exaggeration of fundamental narcissism. 7. Fundamental narcissism is an intrinsic property of the ego-self, which is the self as experienced in the dimension of conventional experience. The Point of Existence, pg. 90 Characteristics of Fundamental Narcissism At all times, however, the characteristics of fundamental narcissism, the alienation from the core of the self, can be seen to underlie all these manifestations. The need for idealized and mirroring self-objects, exaggerated self-reference and entitlement, grandiosity, propensity towards slights and hurts, superficiality and fakeness, and the tendency towards narcissistic rage and devaluation, will always be discernable whenever she is dealing with narcissism. The Point of Existence, pg. 360 If I didn’t write something shocking in the beginning, very useful information would be overlooked. By many, it probably is anyway.

From Time to Time by Dr. Jim Rosen ©2021 Dr. Jim Rosen If you could relive just one day of your life, which day would it be? You get to pick the day, and you decide how to relive it. You can keep it as it was then, or you can go back and make a few changes in your own actions. So what would it be for you? Would you like to share that special day of love with the love you lost? Would you go to an earlier period when you were much younger and free from present responsibilities? Would you like to go back in time and repair a day of regret, a day that stuck in the back of your mind for all these years? After you decide, I'd like you to examine your choice. Look at the particular day you picked. What does it say about who you are and what your longings are? What does it indicate about the mistakes you don't want to repeat? What does it show you about what's really important to you? What does it suggest about the path you have chosen?

The Celestine Prophecy series maybe,,, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Celestine_Prophecy

Yes,,, stay strong and keep positive whatever you can,,, About Angels,, Concerning Temperance #14 Tarot Meditations on the Tarot Page 379; There is what is called in Christian Hermeticism the “freeing of the guardian angel”. The guardian Angel is freed – often in order to be able to acquit new missions—when the soul has acquired the disposition of its part of “likeness” in order to experience the Divine more intimately and more immediately, which corresponds to another hierarchical degree. Then it is an Archangel who replaces the freed guardian Angel. Human beings whose guardian is an Archangel have not only new experiences of the Divine in their inner life, but also, through this very fact, receive a new and objective vocation.

Transferences The need to be seen,,,, The personhood or ego self can’t help but have narcissistic tendencies. Interesting excerpts from AH Almaas glossary A Way of Exposing the Emptiness of One's Sense of Self The narcissistic transferences are present for everyone all the time, but are usually in the background. In our work they come into the foreground, and become the focus of the work when the emptiness of the normal self-identity becomes increasingly obvious. Working with the narcissistic transferences is the primary psychodynamic work on the narcissistic sector of the self. Working with these transferences is a way of exposing the emptiness of one’s sense of self, especially for students with significant narcissistic personality components. Awareness of narcissistic transference as transference again will bring out the sense of meaninglessness. Three factors elicit narcissistic emptiness and meaninglessness: first, the normal process of maturation in which one outgrows defensive aspects of the identity; second, the pressure of doing spiritual work and experiencing essential presence, which tends to expose the relative unreality of the level of personality identifications; and third, working with the narcissistic transferences, that is, bringing to consciousness the object relations that have been supporting the more superficial sense of self and helping one to avoid the sense of emptiness. These narcissistic transferences are very powerful; they are not easy to work through. However, it is necessary to work through them in order to expose the support for the superficial identity, as well as to deal with the defenses against emptiness, helplessness, and aloneness. These defenses prevent our openness to the realization of our true essential nature. The Point of Existence, pg. 229 Transforming the Self-Identity Structure This process of self-realization naturally applies pressure on the conventional sense of identity. Issues arise which affect the central narcissistic structure, that of self-identity. The transformation of narcissism consists largely of the transformation of this structure, leading to the realization of the Essential Identity. The increasing pressure on the structure of self-identity exposes its underlying vulnerability and shakiness. The student attempts to find ways to shore up his sense of identity, but can no longer turn so easily to idealization; he has seen through it. So he turns to mirroring self-objects to help him preserve the integrity and cohesion of his capacity for self-recognition. This manifests as the need for mirroring, particularly in the mirror transference onto the teacher. Investigating this narcissistic transference in depth leads us to a thorough understanding of the sense of identity and its underlying structure. We become increasingly aware of the properties of the self-identity, which we have up to now taken for granted to be part of who we really are. This awareness begins to transform the self-identity, making it more flexible and realistic. So this structure becomes less and less opaque, until it is transparent enough to reveal the essential identity. This is the central process of the transformation of narcissism, which begins by observing and understanding the need to be seen and mirrored. The Point of Existence, pg. 277 When One's Relationship With Others Becomes More Markedly Narcissistic As the emptiness of the shell approaches conscious awareness, one's relationships to others become more markedly narcissistic. Kohut called the narcissistic object relations narcissistic transferences (he later named them self-object transferences), referring especially to those seen in the clinical situation with the analyst. The narcissistic transferences generally function to shore up the sense of identity, to make that sense of identity feel supported. In our work these transferences arise in the student's relationship to her teacher. The Point of Existence, pg. 229 These last 2 quote adds to my theory that the majority of Actualizers at some point go through a Zen devil phase. It kind of has that smell. I’ve pondered on this over time,,,,Anyone have thoughts on this notion?

I’m still a work in progress. Purification of the emotional center certainly doesn’t happen overnight. Have you ever caught yourself in the midst of a negative emotion and expression but we’re somehow by an inner recognition bring it to a stop and reversal. Not easy for sure. It’s a big accomplishment. I’ve noticed on the rare occurrences I’m able to manifest this experience soon follows an inner quiet and what seems like a subtle bump of energy. If I don’t manage this and continue to complain and piss and moan, my energy spirals down rather quickly as a rule. Have you ever busted yourself enjoying some form of negativity such as juicy gossip about a friend or family member?Perhaps even feeling that inner dirtiness that’s comes with it? More Maurice Nicoll- TRANSFORMATION OF NEGATIVE EMOTIONS “The observation of our negative states and the separation from them is one of the most important sides of practical work. The transforma- tion of negative emotions belongs to the Second Conscious Shock and here the whole Work comes in and the whole evaluation of it. You may be negative but you must feel that it is not you that is negative but It. This is the beginning of inner separation, of not identifying with negative states, of not identifying with oneself.” V. 2, p. 530 OBSERVING NEGATIVE ‘I’S “In the Work, the enjoyment of negative states must be observed sincerely, especially the secret enjoyment of them. The reason is that if a man enjoys being negative, in whatever forms, and they are legion, he can never separate from them. You cannot separate yourself from what you have a secret affection for.” V. 1, p. 214 WATCHING REACTIONS “Once you have realized that this reaction of yours is quite typical, and you have always had complaints in exactly the same way, it will give you a shock. It will startle you. You will see that it is this complaining itself that you have to notice in yourself and not what you imagine causes it. Next time that these complaining ‘I’s begin to resume their customary activity, the shock that you had may just be able to give you the emotional force to observe them before they start using your mouth, in your name. You will have the shock of remem- bering yourself.” V. 2, p. 449

I recommend this whole album Raising Sand

@BlackMaze I was going to quote some Castenada but doing a search on Actualized I encountered a post where I paraphrased some Gurdjieff and Castenada both. The main thing I was going for was Castenada’s use of the term - the place of no pity. In a vague way, this was his description of Love. It took me some time to make the connection but once I did, it helped me in situations like the one you describe. Feeling sorry or having pity for others actually does them a disservice. This may or may not make any sense to you. Good luck,,,,, Here’s the post from last year- Cleaning the atmosphere of your luminous egg gives you inner quiet. There are different practices for this. You are then free inside of other people. What they do no longer provokes one's ego. The Four Moods Ruthlessness, Cunning, Patience, And Sweetness. Ruthlessness should not be harshness Cunning should not be cruelty Patience should not be negligence Sweetness should not be foolishness. A mood of abandon but not recklessness; a mood of caring but not indulgence. Be ruthless but charming Be cunning but nice Be patient but active Be sweet but lethal Ruthless without being self-important Ruthlessness, the opposite of self-pity Ruthlessness is a total lack of pity The place of no pity is the site of ruthlessness. Ruthlessness, being a specific position of the assemblage point, is shown in the eyes of sorcerers. It’s like a shimmering film over the eyes. The eyes of sorcerers are brilliant. The greater the shine, the more ruthless the sorcerer is. Ruthlessness is not cruelty. Ruthlessness is the opposite of self-pity or self-importance. Ruthlessness is sobriety. Ruthlessness is Love with a big L.

I’ve never tasted reindeer so I googled it. Seems to be a toss up beyond the variables of - time of year,age, diet and condition of animal and stress during death. It sounds like white tail deer are prone to having a more gamey taste. But as you probably know, there are remedies for that. Like letting the cuts soak in milk over night before frying.

Straying from topic more or less. Going off on a tangent concerning semantics. That is, besides one tongue in cheek comment regarding pleasure. ?

Unconditional human experience still sounds similar to non conceptual awareness or objectless awareness. These could also be labeled as transpersonal states of consciousness. People who have attained the station of the Pearl beyond price could still be in a personal state of awareness as being realized of the nature of being. Maybe? My imaginative conjectures may be getting shaky though,,,, Just having fun,,,,

I walk several paths. Right hand, left hand, sometimes the middle way,,,, sometimes the Fourth Way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-hand_path_and_right-hand_path I don’t believe in the existence of an all evil being, like Satan aka the Devil. The human ego is the devil.

@fridjonk I second that motion,,,,

The I CHING commentary I mentioned just above-

Fried a skillet full of deer meat today. It turned out pretty good. I didn’t consult the Oracle until late in the day. Hexagram 8 - Holding Together changing lines 1&3 producing a 2nd hexagram - After Completion Insightful commentary. I’ll try to upload it shortly. My attachments space is full up and I need to make some room.

No Sir, but at times, they seem to be major contributors.

What about non=conceptual awareness aka objectless awareness? The specific state mentioned in connection with Zazen practice and Centering Prayer Meditation. Unconditional experience sounds possibly similar. ?‍♂️ After pondering a bit I thought the notion had a little merit anyway. Don’t want to come off as adversarial but by all means reply if your moved to. I’m just asking rhetorically as a type six ‘devil’s advocate’ and not an argumentative know-it-all looking for a pissing contest.

Self Love As it’s commonly used in contemporary times, Self Love is addressed as a positive thing. Maurice Nicoll like Gurdjieff, though, used the term self love as being synonymous with egotism. All of chapter 14 in Gems Of Wisdom is devoted to self love as it was used ordinarily back in the day,,, I really see no contradictions. These words are just being used with different usages. A different frame of reference perhaps between world of personality and world of essence or being.,,,,,maybe? Castenada’s use of the term self importance is very much in line with Gurdjieff’s and Nicoll’s use of self love. I get a kick out of reading Nicoll. He’s a real hoot sometimes. Like In this first paragraph. CHAPTER 14 SEEING SELF-LOVE AT WORK A DESCRIPTION “I well know as a medical psychologist the awkward point where I had to say to the patient: ‘Yes—I can see you have been badly treated, never appreciated, never properly understood. You have told me all that very clearly. But do you think that it is possible that you are not quite the ideal person that you seem to imagine yourself to be, and that there may be some quite serious faults in yourself?’ Now you can all imagine the haughty look, the frozen smile, the magnificent rising from the chair—and the slamming of the door—without, of course, the fee being paid. Yes—but what has happened. . . What has been touched? What would you call it? Whatever you call it, it is this factor that prevents self-change...If he sees for himself something of this factor in him, which is so formidable and the source of so much violence, then it is not aroused antagonistically. He sees himself: he begins to accept what he would never have accepted from another. It is in this way that the Work deals with this otherwise intractable fac- tor in Man.” V. 3, pp. 1165-1166 PRIDE AND VANITY “You must study Pride and Vanity in yourselves and all their different gradations. Do you know your own forms of Vanity and how much they occupy you? Do you know where your Pride lies? Where do you feel that you love yourself, that you admire yourself? Where do you most feel that you are utterly different from other people? Where are you most conceited? What do you boast about? What are you silent about? Vanity is frequently very talkative, whereas Pride is silent. Which is the deeper wound, wounded Vanity or wounded Pride? What is it you cannot forgive? You know that if you cannot forgive it is because of some form of self-love which, ideally speaking, has to be smashed out of you.” V. 1, p. 360 SELF-LOVE “One can feel very startled when one realizes that it is alwa this thing called oneself that is being comforted, exalted, tittilated, soothed, flat- 70 tered, satisfied, and that when it is not, it begins to whimper like a baby. And it is always this odd restless thing that is being offended, upset, negative, indignant, downcast. Cast down from what? From its centrepoint of self-love.” V. 2, p. 472 SELF-LOVE II “Ask yourself sometimes: ‘Why am I doing this?’ or ‘Why am I say- ing this?’ or ‘Why am I behaving in this way?’ or ‘Why am I writing this?’ Whatever imaginary robes of self-righteousness we clothe our- selves in, these questions tend to undress us again...When we have gone more deeply into self-observation and self-knowledge, we simply have to give up a lot of the manifestations of the self-love, disguised as something genuine.” V. 2, p. 476 SELF-LOVE III “No one can possibly act beyond some degree of ‘self-love’—that is, beyond self-interest, self-feeling, self-esteem, self-admiration, self-delight, self-praise, self-seeking, and so on...I t is difficult to catch even a glimpse of the forest of self-love and all its pseudo-creations. How- ever, if one does, it is a very startling experience. It is a real shock, like the realization of mechanicalness. It creates a sense of being under- mined, an empty feeling...When you feel you have been betrayed by a friend you feel undermined. But to feel you have been betrayed by yourself is worse.” V. 2, p. 471-2 SELF-LOVE IV “One can hate its falsities. But what do we find? We find it seems impossible to get rid of it. We seem fastened to it. We react to its influences continually. It has so many tricks, so many pretenses and deceptions, that we simply cannot deal with it. We are just too late. But new emotions can catch it in time. You remember that the speed of emotions is greater than that of thoughts. In short, we cannot deal with it without the help of something else. . . The object of all real esotericism is connect Man with the Will of God and to break him from his own self-will.” V. 2, pp. 472, 479 71 SELF-LOVE V “The life of self-love is death...The self-love always regards itself. It cannot look up...Self-love is not cognitive. It lays down no memory for ‘next time.’ It makes darkness, not light...You can cease to do this only by observing little by little, what you are really like.” V. 5, pp. 1638-9 SELF-LOVE VI “You cannot get to certain emotions that come from beyond the zone of self-love, if you take yourself as one... Something else in you, apart from the self-love, has to see the truth of such ideas. And if there were no emotions possible beyond those belonging to the self-love this would not be possible and so no development would be possible. It is upon the appearance of these other and new emotions and their gradual strengthening, that development depends, and this is when being changes.” V. 2, p. 474 LAUGHING AT ONESELF “Now one way to attack the self-love is through self-observation. . . . It is wonderful to catch a glimpse of your self-love and be able to laugh at it. One loses the former highly-explosive over-sensitive feeling of ‘I’ more and more. That means more balance. That means becoming softer.” V. 5, p. 1604 ENDURING DEVALUATION “It would be impossible to catch a glimpse of one’s level of Being unless one could endure it. Now the only way you can endure it is by having something else you can hold onto. If you have something else that you value and that you can hold on to and trust, you can then endure a certain amount of devaluation of yourself.” V. 2, p.509 ENDURING DEVALUATION II “When you begin to feel your own nothingness you begin to receive the help of the Work to replace that nothingness by something. So you have to go down a long way before you begin to go up.” V. 3, p. 878 72 A CHANGE OF STATE “You cannot change your inner state if you cling to what you are based on, just as you cannot leave your room if you persist in clinging to all the articles of furniture in it...The feeling of Real ‘I’ can only come to you when all such false ‘I’s are diminished in you. All of you may think that you never speak like that man (in the Gospels) who prayed: ‘Thank God I am not as other men,’ but have you actually observed how often you do enact this without actually saying it, how often you act from this basis?” V. 1, p. 344 TWO KINDS OF ‘SELF’ “We know that all these different divergent elements in us can be fused into a unity, which means that our present level of being in the total Scale of Being from a stone up to Divine Being is far lower than it was made to be; and this we need to feel at all times. Why? It helps us to undermine self-complacency, self-righteousness, and self-merit, self-applause, and all this tedious self stuff, except Self-Remembering. It is Self-Remembering. The Self you try to remember is above yourself. It is there: and you need always to feel so, for that lets in a certain influx of interior light, which self-emotions shut out.” V. 4, p. 1495

@fridjonk I can relate. My first Ketamine trip was fairly traumatic with nausea and vomiting. From our previous conversations I believe you have a somewhat better tolerance than I do concerning Ketamine. It’s so weird to go into the Ketamine hole. I couldn’t leave the room I was in because I couldn’t tell where the floor was. Couldn’t discern horizontal from vertical. Don’t really care for that stuff. A medium dose is plenty for me anymore, if I do it at all. To be honest I really don’t find much that’s beneficial or therapeutic about it. Same for 3 MeO PCP. It too is classified as a dissociative. Tried it a couple of times. Not interested in that stuff anymore either. Glad you reported in. Your aurora borealis experience you had pre-trip sounded really neat,,,,