Zigzag Idiot

This lecture is SO rich! His way of expressing complex issues and the commonly held upside-down-ness of the of the cultural consensus trance and its undoing, otherwise known as awakening, makes it more of a possibility. For the first time, or as a repeat lesson as in Self Remembering in the Gurdjieffian usage. My inspiration for expressing has outrun my capacity for doing so. I’ll have to come back and try later. ?

@LastThursday , I agree with yours and @modmyth’s sentiments regarding etiquette among the Journal writers. Perhaps some of the ideas you mentioned can be implemented at some point. You set a good example expressing what you did. Try as I may, I usually end up committing some faux pas fairly regular. In general though, it seems that behaviors here in this section of the forum are a little more civil than in some of the more high traffic areas, for the most part. How nice it would be if most everyone carried the attitude of being a placeholder for all others in times when they forget themselves,,,, Regarding the no way way, I’m reminded of something I heard the philosopher Arnold Keyserling say. He said “ The best assurance you can have that your on the way is to not know if you are. The minute one is sure and believes that they are one the way, they are not on the way whatsoever.” ???‍♂️

This is a good way to ease into it. Brad Warner paraphrased the Shobogenzo in his book - Don’t be a Jerk

I enjoy reading excerpts at random in the Ridhwan Glossary - Enjoying Inquiry The aim of inquiry, however, is not to arrive at conclusions but to enjoy the exploration and the thrill of discovery. This discovery is the unfoldment of the soul, and expresses the soul’s love of truth and reality, which itself is the expression of Being’s love of revealing itself. Spacecruiser Inquiry, pg. 19 Being Authentically and Fully Ourselves We have seen that in order for us to be authentically and fully ourselves, our identity must include the ontological depth of the soul, essential presence, and that to be presence means simply to be. When we are simply being, our experience of ourselves is direct, immediate, spontaneous, and natural, free from the influence of the thick veil of accumulated memories, ideas, ideals and images. We have also seen that conventional experience does not allow the experience of self-realization because conventional experience is virtually determined by this thick veil of personal history. We have noted that ordinarily the self cannot experience itself separately from the self-representation, and that, in fact, it experiences itself from within, and through, that representation … it now becomes clear that the veil of personal history is the self-representation. Regardless of how realistic the self representation is, it cannot contain the true reality of the self. The Point of Existence, pg. 63 Ego Structures are Always Alienated from True Being However, looked at from the dimension of Being, regardless of how mature and integrated ego is, it is always a precocious development. We have seen that the ego becomes the system that structures, and includes in its structures the ego functions. It becomes, in other words, the functional part of oneself. We have also seen that ego development is an incomplete process, short of the realization of the Personal Essence. Ego structures are always alienated from the true Being, so the functional part of oneself is separate from who one is. Thus from the perspective of Being, ego development is a development of functioning that is separate from who one is. When there is appropriate emotional development, the individual is better off than the narcissistic character we have just described. However, it is intrinsically the same kind of situation, for in both cases—normal and pathological ego development—there is dissociation from one’s Being. Pearl Beyond Price, pg. 351

This fits A poem by Red Hawk Honesty If you want to see what real honesty is look no further than the dog. The dog doesn't give a damn for looking good but will hunch the leg of the Queen's mother If it feels like it. The dog doesn't care what the hell you think, it will lick its balls in the presence of the Pope If that is what it has a mind to do. The dog does not stand on position, power, wealth or fame of any kind. He will bite the rump of the Emperor if he tries to pick up the dog's food; the dog will lift its leg on the whitewall tire Of the Prime Minister's limousine or shit on the Dalai Lama's Prayer rug because he is a dog and that is what dogs do and in some secret uncorrupted part of the self we admire this honesty in dogs, because we see it is absent in ourselves and we know that such honesty comes with a terrible price in this world.

Consulting the I CHING this morning I got hexagram 62 - Preponderance of the Small with line 4 changing creating a second hexagram 39 - Meeting Obstructions Commentary from line 4-

Touché @ilja Should have added I do appreciate the left brain, right brain perspective.

Actually, I think @Scholar said that,,, I’m not in complete agreement with that one. My assessment from one perspective is that he embodies the pancreas dominant Lunar essence type which natural energies are passive and negative. Essence type is deeper than personality traits.

I’ve made note in the past how pain often comes in waves. Easily observable with an abscess tooth but I’ve experienced it as well when grieving the death of someone close and dear to me.

It’s good to see others posting music on here

Cause and Effect by Dr. Jim Rosen ©2021 Dr. Jim Rosen Your thoughts and actions lead to outcome A. The problem is that you want outcome B. OK, not a problem. Just change your thoughts and actions to the ones that lead to outcome B. Oh, but there is a problem. You don’t want to change your thoughts and actions. You want to keep on believing what you believe and behaving the way you behave. So you are stuck with outcome A. Now that appears to be a problem. You are up against the law of cause and effect. You didn’t design God’s Universe and you didn’t create the law of cause and effect, but there it is staring you right in the face. If you say and do and think the things that cause A, then A is what you get – every time. But if you will embrace the needed changes instead of fighting them and resisting them and refusing them, you can point yourself toward B and cause it to happen. The problem is not a problem – if you will let go and accept the law of cause and effect.

You’re right in that I wasn’t articulating very well in what was going through my mind. Of course not all Dairymen are alike. There is a wide variety. My reasoning about the natural saint comment was my view that having a Dairy was about the shittiest of occupations in Agriculture. A large part being that the milking schedules are relentless and would drive an ordinary person mad. Everyday is alike more or less. Weekends, holidays, being sick with the flu, it doesn’t matter. There’s an axiom stated in the Fourth Way that nothing grows a persons being more than having to endure an injustice. That’s the reasoning behind my comment about the result of an occasional Saint. Instead of speculating on life around a Dairy, I’ll talk about what I know as a now retired rancher. Having large numbers of cattle they become quite the opposite of acting domesticated. Being prone to nervousness when they’re gathered into the corral for working. Most of the time I could “tow” the herd by just rattling a feedsack into a catch pen where they could be easily pushed into the lot. For the last 15 years that I was responsible for the herd, I used antibiotics just a handful f times. It was a very rare occasion. Didn’t use growth hormones either. My philosophy was feed them well and have them fat going into winter. Being healthy, their immune system handled all the problems. If they had to endure freezing rain and sleet, I would put out a liquid feed just ahead of the bad weather that really helped build heat in their body core. Most of the ranchers I was aquatinted with knew the value in handling their cattle as gently as possible. Regardless though, with large numbers the situation in the lot while working them was often quite intense. I was the one who always did the castrating by knife. It was a bloody job that inflicted pain that I got absolutely no joy out of doing it. Just the opposite. Animal rights people have often claimed that banding the young bull calves was the most humane. I think that’s a bunch of horseshit. I could usually have their nuts cut off and out of the headgate in less than 90 seconds. Compare that to having to watch them walk stiff legged around with a heavy rubber band around their nuts that are swollen and slowly rotting off after a few weeks. Of course nobody would like to choose but If it were me, I’d ask for the knife instead of banding. It’s not a simple equation though either because an inexperienced person doing the castrating with a knife, it can go on and on and on with blood squirting everywhere and the calf bawling and screaming for all they’re worth. It can really be gruesome. In general I would say that kids who grew up on a ranch were usually more humane towards the animals than those who didn’t. I had to carry out some gruesome tasks now and then as a rancher but I never got any enjoyment out of it. Usually it made me want to go get drunk. I’m sure there’s a percentage that have more than a small degree of sadist tendencies. Usually it’s younger folks from what I’ve seen. But respectfully I disagree about sadist tendencies being that widespread as a whole. I wholeheartedly agree with the denial part. Lots one lots of self denial and refusing to stray from the narratives they grew up with and the justifications over ways in which they go about their way of life which year by year an increase in their overall vested interests is just about a given. ? I’ve enjoyed the exchange,,,,

Saying the inner NO. This is a great method for establishing and/or protecting your boundaries and not becoming egoic in doing so.

I’m curious if Leo is the one who coined that phrase. Which if he did, I’m glad. It definitely describes a phenomena. Closely related ; In Robert deRopp’s classic book The Master Game he writes of the 6 catches Jana Dixon in her book Biology of Kundalini writes about pitfalls on the path. http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.php@story=PitfallsonthePath.html

@ilja Churchy religion is for the walking dead. A Castaneda quote that came to mind-, ,,,,Man has a dark side. It's called stupidity. In the same measure that ritual forced the average man to construct huge churches that were monuments to self-importance and ritual,,,,,,,, Ritual can trap our attention better than anything I can think of. But it also demands a very high price. That high price is ,,,,,morbidity; and morbidity could have the heaviest liens and mortgages on our awareness. The point I was trying to make is that some people who plug along with discipline in shitty conditions can naturally appear higher on the Spiral seemingly all at once. Among different categories of people in Agriculture, I think those who have Dairys have the most difficult life. Hog farmers may be in the top spot though. Those who are ranchers like me, are for the most part psychopaths and swaggering egomaniacs with the exception of a small percentage.

Being is an Existence, a Suchness Being means no reaction, no mental activity that defines who or what one is. In fact, Being is not an activity at all; it is an existence, a suchness, a thereness, a Presence that is not doing anything to be there. Since Being is itself existence, it does not need the mind to be there. It is like a physical object, which does not need the activity of mind to exist. Pearl Beyond Price, pg. 57 Being is Fundamentally Beyond Mind, Beyond Discriminating Knowing In recognizing that pure awareness is nonconceptual, we discover new and surprising truths about Reality. We see that our being is fundamentally beyond mind, beyond discriminating knowing. We see that, since nonconceptual awareness is the ground of all manifestation, Reality is independent of our minds, and manifestation is not the creation of our thoughts. Without manifestation there would be no awareness, and since awareness is ultimately nonconceptual, the forms in manifestation are not conceptual either. This is a radical discovery. It illuminates the Reality beyond our individual minds, revealing that the differentiation in manifestation is beyond mind. We do not need discriminating knowing to perceive differentiation. Differentiation is inherent in manifest reality, and it ontologically precedes the dimension of basic knowledge, the nous dimension. The basic knowledge of pure presence simply adds discrimination to the already present differentiation of forms in manifest reality. The Inner Journey Home, pg. 328

An Important Difference Between the Mind and Being These fantasies, beliefs and misinformation actually accompany almost all internalized object relations to some extent. Internalized object relations are rarely true representations of actual events or relationships. One’s memory traces include all kinds of ideas, fantasies and images that never had an objective reality. Another source of extraneous material comes from the psychic processes of organization and integration themselves. These processes modify the original object relations as more impressions are internalized. This is necessary for the integration of object relations units of various affect and content. This extra material, whether it is attached to actual memories of object relations or consists of pure fabrications, cannot be absorbed into Being. This is an important difference between the mind and Being. The mind can absorb and identify with any psychic material it believes to be true. It does not have the capacity, on its own, to discern what is objective truth and what is not. In other words, the mind can be deceived, even by itself. Being, on the other hand, is pure reality. It is the actual stuff and consciousness of truth, and cannot be deceived. It does not try not to be deceived; it is simply truth by its nature, a self-conscious medium made of pure sensitivity. Any falsehood, that is, anything which is not the objective truth of what actually happened in past interactions which produced a particular object relation, is felt in comparison to Being to be dull, gross and distasteful. When one is in contact with Being, these falsehoods are felt to be lifeless, thick and heavy veils in comparison to the luminosity of Being. Pearl Beyond Price, pg. 163

No sir, I definitely meant masochist because of the relentless demands it makes on a person that never seemingly ends ,,,, 7 days a week, weekends, and holidays, etc.,,, I don’t believe I was projecting either or hope not. It was meant more as speculation or an imaginative conjecture. A Dairy farmer who turned vegetarian reminds me of the paradoxical nature of awakened people. I just reread it and saw he shut down his dairy. That makes sense because I don’t think a vegetarian would have the Will and fortitude to operate a Dairy. This isn’t meant as a put down towards vegetarians, though. I appreciate the example and dedication to non-violence they bring to everyone through their embodiment of that choice and way of living.

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Someone who has let go of thinking mind and replaced it with being,,,,,,,?

To operate a Dairy you have to be fairly masochistic. Among different kinds of farmers I would bet the highest number of natural Saints would be among Dairymen. IDK,,,