Zigzag Idiot

Maurice Nicoll Maurice Nicoll's The Psychological Commentaries on The Teaching of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky is a five volume 1760 page set that is a treasure for understanding the Work, and for many is a joy to read unlike Gurdjieff's ALL AND EVERYTHING. The influence of a Fourth Way teacher early in my discovery of the Work convinced me to buy the set which, at the time meant picking up used copies as encountered on the net for around $40 to $60 per volume. About $300 for the whole set. The stack looked so intimidating that I put off reading them for about 6 years but when I did, I feel in love with them. Being the written transcripts of Nicoll's weekly Gurdjieff group lectures, they are extremely readable. So much that when I finished I immediately reread the 1760 page set. An online Fourth Way acquaintance shared this 130 page condensed summary of the Commentaries this last year. For serious students of the Fourth Way ideas, it's a treasure twice over,,, L https://inner-world-books.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Gems_of_Wisdom.pdf Ouspensky decifered and articulated The Fourth Way better than Gurdjieff but many, including myself, gain the most understanding from reading Maurice Nicoll. One of my favorite humorous quotes from Nicoll's Commentaries about how we are often unable to quiten the mind: Nicoll psychological commentaries page 683. Have you got sufficient inner observation? Have you cleared and well dug a big space in your mind through the practice of inner attention and put a hedge round it and a gate so that you can hear the click of the gate and watch this darling little thought coming up the drive all ready to say: “Oh, how tired I am,” etc.? I fancy that once we let it in very far every thought gets hold of us and wrings us, takes our blood, makes us react, talk, behave, in a certain way, and then, satisfied with having dined off us, it retires for a time.

On the Essence or endocrine typology, going by your picture and the nature of what you write, I also typed you as of the Solar mars type. If your drawn to it, it would give some added nuance. The two typologies add to one another. Personality is more fixed by conditioning and alterable. Essence is in the genetics and is more fixed. I paraphrase crudely sometimes,,, http://destinyclemens.com/Destinyclemens/Gallery_3/Pages/Mars-Solar.html i don't agree with this site in that he has an "Earth" type. It's an altered form of what I've learned. It's the only site I've found with pictures of Essence Types, though. Most everything else other than that, of the Earth type, is right on.

30 Years ago a friend and I were staying drunk for a week sitting around a campfire while everyone else was out trying to murder something in the woods. One of the young hounds wandered back and layed down and started licking himself. I looked at the dog and remarked, " I wish I could do that." My friend without hesitation said, "You better pet him first." So naturally that witicism with me in the middle of it got repeated far and wide for years. One good thing about getting older. The torture of hornyness isn't nearly as intense as it is in younger years. Regarding your gaming traits as a player and your self described tendency to over analyze makes you sound like a counter phobic type 6 or maybe an eight on the Enneagram of personality. Have you typed yourself in any typology?

I forgot. Oliver Cromwell is in my family tree on my Dads side. Regarding my next trip. It's just a matter of sourcing, pretty much. lts good to hear you didn't enter any dark territory and it sounds like some good integration is coming out of it. I told you in direct message about my one trip on dmt about 18 months ago but I've never mentioned it on the forums. I think I mentioned to you that it was very unpleasant experience. It was 4 hours of a sound similar to Tibetan horns, rotating geometric shapes and everything red in color,,,,with a sense of heaviness. Me and a friend happened onto someone who offered it. Just by sight he put some in an emptied out supplement capsule. One for each of us. He told us we had to snort it. My friend forgot and later swallowed it and got nothing from it. I followed instructions and tripped really hard for four hours and about 4 hours of comedown. It exhausted me. I was stupid about it. I don't even know what kind of dmt it was. One reason I want to investigate is seeing that so many are doing specifically 5 meo dmt and are really getting something out of it. In the meantime I've read Rick Strauman's DMT The Spirit Molecule. So, my curiosity is involved again. Not to mention what Leo is saying.

Pondering "Questioning makes one open, makes one sensitive, makes one humble. We don't suffer from our questions, we suffer from our answers. Most of the mischief in the world comes from people with answers, not from people with questions." (Jacob Needleman) "Good Lord, help me avoid the pitfalls of judging, knowing, finding and concluding." (Paul Beidler) BEARING UNPLEASANT MANIFESTATIONS “One sign of Being is the capacity to bear the unpleasant manifestations of others. Why is this a sign of greater Being? The answer is that you cannot do this unless you have seen in yourself what you dis-like in others...When you have just criticized someone, go over what you said carefully and apply it to yourself. This neutralizes poison in you.” V. 1, pp. 168, 176 “It is impossible to endure one another’s unpleasant manifestations in the right sense of the meaning of the word unless we see our own unpleasant manifestations and know them and accept them...(We) begin to realize our own helplessness, so we can endure the helpless- ness of others.” V. 3, p. 832

Shamanism speaks about the coveted state of having no personal history and also the practice of erasing personal history. It sounds like an experience of inner quiet concerning self identity by definition. I've had a taste of that feeling affected cellurlarly in a mysterious way out of nowhere, but not as intensely as you describe. Interesting,,, One time I was so hungover, I couldn't remember what butter was. This was a different kind of erasure though. Just something funny I thought of. I think sharing with others about this stuff and self Inquiry in general is a good way to help ground ones experience. Thanks for sharing.

Watched this last night. Yellow SD level very connected to Systems thinking. Learn to hang out in objectless awareness, she says. CB mentions letting objectless awareness be the default home for our witnessing presence. 6 minutes. Laura Knight-Jadczyk touches on a disturbing element for those who wake up. 5:40 minutes

@Zigzag Idiotcould you elaborate on this, how would you define the difference between these two states you mention? I equate thinking with experience of content awareness and feeling with contextual awareness. Or more importantly the elimination of over-thinking and over-feeling but rather tapped into flow through an intuned intuitive gut response and acting from that. On second thought, what I'm referring to relates both to a low ambition drive and stillness as well as a productive high ambition drive. The description given by Markus is probably a little more relevant. I just bought Leo's Booklist a couple of weeks ago and noticed the book Good Business by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi also wrote a book with the title FLOW. I was surprised that it was not recommended instead. But on the other hand, I have not read his book Good Business which may incorporate the ideas from his book Flow.

I wouldn't have said that if wasn't something that's been with me all through life. There hasn't been a major revelation but hundreds of small ones over the years. I could easily be wrong and it's not that important to me. Just something to express my openness towards reincarnation. As a kid I couldn't stand to watch movies or anything that was set in that time period. that time period (1890 -1950). Im British at heart in a way. Beatles, Pink Floyd, Led Zepplin, Elo, Clapton ,,,, great! Not so much for The Rolling Stones. Love Monty Python, Faulty Towers and others. This doesn't really say anything though. A few years ago on an elevator at a Casino on the Mississippi River for some reason, 3 women assumed I was from The U.K. for some reason. They actually said that I looked British! Anyway, that's the short story on that. Hope things are going ok with your boundary melting medicine. Sounds like it was but this is at least 3 hours later. Enjoy your trip,,,,

The body I have now was born in 1967. The body of my previous life died around 18 years before somewhere in or close to the U.K. I have no way of explaining how I know this.

@Shin you help the part of me which is 'Aspergers boy', learn to engage more freely in banter.

Related to what you said in your video. I have found that by allowing my anger instead of repressing, I can express myself more fully if I consciously use it but only if my expression wasn't coming from a place of negative emotion. In other words, the anger would be the tool for accessing through heightened feeling, my connection with pure being. The liberation you described reminded of this.

Divorcing myself as much as possible from awareness related to content and going into an experience or perspective related to context. Finding and resting in the 'Oceanic experience',,,, Sunday seems to be a good day especially for that although I've found it also can breathe new life into the middle of a stressful week as a way of reaffirming any previous realization about being or beingness.

Dissociation through humor mock anger Youre a riot ?

I just watched that top YouTube you posted on March 2 - Why You Should Practice Being Stupid, Dumb, Unthinking. I've searched for youtubes explaining inner or internal considering as it's used in the Fourth way. I've only found about 3 or 4 so far. Given the huge relevance for this subject, that's not very many. This Benedict Cumberbatch video describes well the scope of inner considering as it's used in Fourth Way Inquiry, in my view. By the way, Great Journal!!

Rereading my post I sound arrogant. Which might mean I'm at yellow but then so are you. Not you @Shin you still have green coping mechanism

From my perspective as a student of the Fourth Way you seem to have that balanced wisdom that comes from discerning these two states and knowing that you cross this boundary because you have felt and observed the experience of it. You not claiming it when I throw it out cinches the deal. I was kinda being a joker throwing out the Gurdjieff terms for 2 Centered Awareness and 3 Centered Awareness. You may not know the vocabulary of the Fourth Way but the practical knowledge of shows in your being. Of what forum topics I've read of your ideas and opinions, I can't remember having a contrasting view with anything you've written. Im not trying to flatter you. Just calling it like I see it.

You're Awake and notice the difference between Itoklanoz awareness and Fulasnitamnian Awareness/knowing. But that's not for me to say. Are you in Fulasnitamnian Awareness? Most of my life my identity and personality both were whatever was coming out of the car speaker. The constant capacity for Spontaneous Disco is at a pretty high level. I'm not quite there yet.

Essence/Body types

I thought of this a few days ago. If you understand why there seems to be a high rate of suicide among squirrels who live near the road then you understand why in part its a little more difficult for a mercurial (thyroid) essence types to do Inquiry than other types. All that energy which is hard to contain is a part of the price they pay for their natural superior perceptive abilities, perhaps. http://destinyclemens.com/Destinyclemens/Gallery_1/Pages/Mercury.html im a Solar Saturn/mars type. Mars and Mercury energy often clash with one another.

Good deal. I'm glad you see a validity. I was really tickled when I discovered Leo referencing Ouspensky. It's amazing how many different paths that came about with the Human Potential Movement that began in the 50's and 60's that were influenced by Gurdjieff and Ouspensky. The link I pasted is a Christian Contemplative site in which a fair percentage (30-40% I'm guessing) are church goers. What you saw was her presentation of the overall ideas to this group. A lot of the reason for the generalization and brevity. I took that quote of Ocke's out of context. He was reffering to the mostly shadow subconscious junk people have which are the basis for projections onto others, instead of surface level personal stuff. Ocke gives a non dual approach through a homey style of communicating. His books Higher Being Bodies and Two Souls are masterpieces in expressing the Gurdjieff Teaching buried in Beelzebub's Tales To His Grandson. Ockes statement - "To really feel others is a huge achievement." Was a reffering to heart intuition and the psychological identifications that are deeply rooted which block it. His reffering to people as wounded animals is because of the reactivity that comes about out of people in deep and constant suffering. I used to be a complainer in a constant way and was completely blind to it. In remembering that period of life, I was very much like a wounded animal in being reactive to others like a hurt dog. With me, I think there is still a lot of deep fear based stuff that when churned up can turn me into 100% meachanical reaction. Or take the enneagram as a device for determining blindspot or chief feature as it's called in the Work,,,,, Really deep inner work that a person does themselves is what Ocke was reffering to. The Work on self required to move into the transpersonal. I very much agree and get the truth, of some of it, anyway. From Gurdjieff, I get through Ocke and Cynthia's articulation of the union of the opposites is through the ability to simply be a witnessing placeholder. But in that willingness for patience and the ability to endure the present moment with Impartiality that the "purely emotional response due to mind-body conditioning" you mention, comes into recognition. When I lived as a near constant emotionally suffering neurotic person, being impatient and reactive was so much a part of my software that I didn't see it because I WAS it. Hope I didn't misconstrue something your wrote and I hope I made some sense in response. I appreciated your thoughts and response.

To Leo and the Moderators - In email communications, Gog said he was kicked out of the Actualized forum. I don't even know what it was about but he expressed to me a change of heart. I would just like to request that he be given another chance. Thanks

Continuity with complete acceptance,,,,,,