Conceptually-made

Hey guys. I am currently studying economics but I don’t find it as a right fit for me so i am thinking about going to study psychology as i have been interested in psychological and philosophical matters quite a bit which is pretty obvious since i am here haha. Anyways the thing that worries me with psychology is that enlightenment and nondual experiences are usually labeled as signs of psychosis or some sort of disorder. And I am just wondering how open minded are the academics in psychology really. Like this college is really expensive and i really don’t want to make the wrong choice as it will not only cost me a lot of money but also a lot of time. What i want to know basically is whether anyone has any experience with this and could help me with it.

yeah you are what you want to be or in other words god ,infinity ,love. Leo doesn’t create dogma, you do. I don’t understand why are u so angry about him.

@Leo Gura Thanks man

@Jennjenn Ok thats interesting. When you say they see people in a vacum. Does that mean that psychologists are too scientific about it. Like dealing just with the symptoms instead of the root cause. Like if that is the case you are right about social work. @Moksha As you have studied psychology do you agree with what @Jennjenn said

@SirVladimir Yeah i had one experience where i became conscious of the groundless nature of reality,infinity and a slight touch of inifinite love. Yeah i see what you are saying but the thing is that most people will never reach those states and there is another way to help them.

@Moksha I am more interested in the general stuff. And what interests me the most are basically traumas and how they cause all sorts of disorders.

@Leo Gura Yeah i see what you are saying i will need to get used to actuality of life haha. The biggest problem i am facing is basically not being supported by my parents. Like i wanted to go to psychology from the beginning but they convinced me that economics is like a safer option and i can do psychology after that. And i found this to be a good reason. But now i am seeing how difficult it is to study something that does not interest me. It sucks not being supported by my parents. It makes me even more scared of failure.

@Jacobsrw Thanks for your explanation really gave me a better perspective i admit i imagined psychology to be more more introspective but yeah i see what you are saying. It is a very statistical and scientific approach and it isn’t necessarily as fun as I imagined it to be. But still the thing that keeps me interested is simply the value of psychology and basically the purpose of its work. i guess I won’t find the perfect college but so far psychology seems like most full filling for me.

@Moksha Well the thing that draws me to psychology is simply the human mind. Its so complex and so interesting when you can see the dynamics you learn in a textbook play out in real time. Also i have had a fair share of difficult moments regarding my mental health and i feel really compassionate to the people and bad about the fact that such a small percentage is even capable of receiving help. i could see myself being a therapist but what i actually see myself doing is helping people on a larger scale. Because no amount of therapists could treat the entire world.

So today i had a very interesting meditation experience. First of all i haven’t been meditating for almost a year now because of various reasons. But i have meditated and contemplated in the past a lot. So i think i have a pretty good understanding of nonduality. Also i had my first awakening experience about three months ago while tripping on mushroms. But thats another story. Basically just today i decided i really want to start meditating again. I created a to do list for 100 days of meditation. After that i sat down and started meditating and not even 10minutes have passed when my consciousness started shifting in a very wierd way it wasn't like anything i have ever experienced during meditation. I started to feel this presure on my eyes and then everything started to feel much more lucid. Suddenly i wasn't simply aware of the things in front of me but all consciousness around me. It is kind of difficult to explain but yeah... And then i started getting excited and it faded. i think this was a slight taste of nonduality through meditation (but I obviously fucked it up haha). But I never thought your state of consciousness could shift in such a significant way just by meditating. Very crazy I also find it very interesting that i had the strongest experience through meditation after more than a year with no meditation and basically no conscious lifestyle. I think this might me because when i meditated daily amd contemplated constantly i always wanted this awakening soo bad but this was probably the biggest obastacle to it. Anyways i just wanted to share this experience i had with yall.

Has anyone read the book Levels of human existence written by Clare Graves? If so do you think it is worth reading or are the books on spiral dynamics better developed?

Currently i am in high school and i have a bit more than a year left to decide to which faculty i would like to go to. My interests are basically psychology and sociology i especially love work from abraham maslow and the spiral dynamics model. I know i don’t want to study pschology since the psychology that is being taught in universities is way different from the type i like. Now the faculties i am acually considering are economy and sociology. I am thinking about economy because psychology and sociology are very connected with economy. And also because I don’t really see my goal in life to work in any particular job... i want to be a creator for which i think studying economy would be very helpful also i like understanding the systems about how our economy works and how counter intuitive can be. But now the thing is that i am not actually interested that much in acumulating money, manipulating the population, exploiting the system and orange stuff that most of the people studying economy actually are. They are very materialistic i think (i am not saying everyone but the majority ). What i am interested in as i said earlier are more sociology and psychology but i am still not sure if i should chose the faculty of sociology since i think there might be some bullshit taughtand also it doesn’t provide me with the knowledge about how to create my own business. I could also study sociological/psychological stuff on my own which could be even more powerfull since I don’t really see any schools teaching the groundbreaking stuff i am learning through actualized.org and other sources. So i would appreciate if you could help me with that and share what you think about it.

I personally think that surrendering isn’t something you can learn or have a technique for. I think that in order to surrender you must either have a trip so strong to fucking demolish you or to be really developed In the field of non-duality. Which means you have to be willing to face all the darkest fears. You have to realize that all the bad possible stuff is nothing to run away and embrace it. Face it full on at its greatest intensity and not try to feel ok about it.Trying to let go will lead you to even worse places since there is a desire to let go(trust me I’ve been there hahah) i am kind of repeating myself here but still... i hope it helps

I had a very bad trip couple months ago. It wasn’t just bad it was traumatic. Basically the acid was stronger than expected (or it was just me in my head potentiating the effects) which was one possible factor for what happened and although i was at home the set&setting werent the best due to the circumstances in my life. An hour and a half into the trip i started getting very paranoid and i was feeling like i needed to secure myself. And me wanting to be safe created the need for control which led to hell. I was dying while trying to control things. At one point i realized that i am experiencing death (not the full falling away of the self) but the ability to do and control anything (I COULDN'T DO A THING). But i still didn’t surrender (looking back there was full on enlightenment waiting for me if only i surrendered). I then realized i have at least 3 more hours of hell at this intensity and things got even worse. I just wanted to run. I was pacing and breathing heavily. I experienced a full on panic attack which made me incredibly scared for my physical body. Then i slowly crawled out of this hell but i was still very traumatised. this experience created fear of psychedelic experiences. I was getting anxiety just by thinking about the hell you can experience. I was scared of it because I felt like there was nothing to do about it. I thought that even the surrendering part of it is not under my control and that “I” as a self cannot surrender so I cannot escape the possibility of a bad trip. After a few weeks i got one very important insight about surrendering. What I realized was that surrendering does not necessary mean relaxing. Sure relaxation comes after the complete surrender but in that trip i wasn’t truly surrendering. I was trying to calm down just to feel ok. I was wanting to let the experience flow through me pleasantly and not accept all the unpleasantness which would lead me to realizing pleasant&unpleasant are the same. I was trying to accept the bad by turning it into good and not realizing they are the same. Although i knew this insight earlier it didn’t really stick. I wasn’t working that much on non-duality around the time I tripped which made me forget the siginificance of that insight and lead me to hell. Now i have much better understanding about surrendering and i think i finally grasped the significance of it.

Title basically explains it. I am asking because i have never seen any adds from leo or any way of him trying to advertise actualized.org

What do you think about his political views? And please don’t just say he is wrong or deluded but please point out on what do you disagree with him.

I’ve been studying Maslows pyramid of needs and maslow presented the first four needs as the deficit needs which means when these needs aren’t satisfied you will experience discomfort and will work hard to satisfy them. Now the first four needs are: physiological (food ,water...), safety (do you feel safe), love and belongingness (do you have close relationships in family and outside), self-esteem( do you feel accepted by society, do you feel up to the challanges life presents to you and the challange life as a whole is). So maslow claims these are the ones you experience discomfort from. And the other such as cognitive, aesthetic, self actualization and self transcendance needs are different because our attitude toward gratifying them isn’t like you need to gratify them and you will be good but you enjoy gratifying them. So now i am thinking about the problem many people have which is that they don’t have a purpose in their life. Purpose is in my opinion very similar if not the same as self-actualization. But how are people then experiencing discomfort and insecurity about life when they don’t have purpose if self-actualization need doesn’t produce these kind of responses according to Maslow. What i think is actually happening with people that are depressed because they don’t have a purpose in their life is that their self-esteem need isn’t trully gratified. As i said earlier self-esteem is how you feel about challanges of life. Do you feel that life is something you can or can’t handle and are you afraid of the future. If you are afraid this has nothing to do with your lack of purpose but it is acually a self-esteem issue.

I meant you having a self image of being dumb and unconscious. I know it isn’t really logical but i was trying to point out how is it serving your self esteem. But yeah okay i guess we don’t really agree about the topic hahah

@TheAvatarState I wasn’t talking about being a good citizen i was talking about loving who you are and feeling that you are great. Also don’t you think that your idea of self actualization is actually serving your self esteem. Do you want to be an actualized human being? Do you feel like there is an end to your process of self actualization? If so this is serving your self esteem. If you think that you are ready to be seen as a freak by society in order to reach your actualized self there is great chance it is serving your self esteem. Do you think that you would prefer being a dumb and unconscious person in your mind in order to do what you love? I think you wouldn’t. This map that i am using is grounded in the nature of human beings. Yes we are different but i think the difference between us is mainly in the content and the deep underlying mechanisms are the same. Sure i may be wrong with this but i think that by deep investigation of your feelings and motives you will come to the same conclusion although i might be wrong. Ego is a sneaky beast and it can trick you very easily.

@TheAvatarState Yeah i am not saying self-actualization is not a need. What i was saying is that at least some of us often confuse the need for self actualization with your actual lacking in self esteem which is a basic need. The discomfort from the basic needs is much different from the discomfort that higher needs cause. Not having those basic needs met feels more of a threat than discomfort. You feel as if you must have these needs met since it is about your conceptual survival. And i know that you will say that you must have your self actualization need met aswell but realize how the need to feel accepted and a “good individual” in this world ( self esteem need) differs from the need to pursue what you love. One is driven by deficiency and other by inspiration. Sure you will feel sad, unsatisfied and agitated if this need of yours is thwarted but it is completely different from any of the basic needs.

@Leo Gura Yeah sure but it does depend on in what way you are using the word crave. The thing i was pointing out above is the difference betwen the cravings of the basic needs and the higher ones. So the word crave would in my opinion suit better the basic needs. I wouldn’t say healthy people (even if they are ambitious) crave life purpose work but i’d say they are driven towards it since they are inspired and they enjoy it. Basically the goal of doing the work is not finishing it. But i would say unhealthy people may crave life purpose because of a bad self-esteem because they think life purpose is what is missing and is making them insecure about life. So they may crave a life purpose but not because they would enjoy in doing it but because they want it done since they would feel better about themselfves if they had something like that.

@Nahm sure but to get to a state like that you need a lot of work and you need to be a healthy human being and needs such as those above are very important to develop into a healthy human being who can then evolve to a state of nondual consciousness. I love how Abraham Maslow put it. He said that that being deficient in your basic needs is just like being deficient of certain minerals or vitamins. You are not at your top performance.

@Aquarius i really don’t know much about this since there are different kinds of love you get. Lacking love from your parents will definitely influence you negatively but also not having any close relationships such as true friends or a significant other has its effects. I think when you are deficient in a thing like love you will feel exactly like that “deficient of love” your biggest wish and desire will be to find someone you could get close with and open up to. And if you are lacking love through longer periods of time especially when young it can have major impact on the development of your self-esteem