Arhattobe

Self inquiry if done mentally, as a thought process is not at all that effective. When your asleep. There is no world. The world arises upon waking up. Where does it arise from. It’s not a place, but a sense. Sense that which everything arises from. That which is not what arises. That’s self inquiry.

@winterknight I understand what your saying quite well. I used to say what your saying. Taught it even. You aren’t getting what I’m saying though. Just keep falling back on your non dual pointers. You lack the self awareness and honesty to see the truth in what I’m saying. Every major tradition talks about different stages of enlightenment you know.

@winterknight By ego I mean personality structure. One that suffers from latent tendencies. Again, examples outside of myself. Alan Watts being an alcoholic. Maharaj being angry and smoking. Numerous teachers sexually harassing and assaulting people. So on. That is still there. Some call the process I’m referring to embodiment in modern circles.

@winterknight The ego also has escapist tendencies and thinks it knows everything. You’ve gone beyond ego identification. It’s still there affecting every word and thought though.

@winterknight You are just not honest with yourself.

We are not talking about different things. The dropping of the identity view is the first fetter. That’s Theravada Buddhism 101. Everything else you said is frankly nonesense. I have been in non duality for 4-5 years. Not talking about an intellectual understanding. I have a lot of latent tendencies l that affect my behaviour. Negative ones. What Hindus calls vasanas. Buddhists call asanas. So do you, and so does every teacher. Maharaj smoked, Alan Watts drank, Maharishi mahesh yogi and numerous others were accused of sexual harassment and assault. These tendencies don’t magically disappear because you move beyond the identity. That’s where real growth starts actually. If you get stuck there it’s actually quite sad. Arhatship or dropping he ten fetters has to do with the complete eradication of all negative tendencies. Even the ability to hold them. That’s completely false. You greatly exgaerate what non duality is, and severely underestimate your subconscious tendencies. Arrogance is extreme in most in non duality. They don’t think it’s arrogance but it exists by the bundle. You can’t see how deep the rabbit hole goes. In regards to what I cited. Read the part about the Buddha and alarma kalarma. His first teacher. Who got him to non duality. No something else to simply reaffirm your perspective.

I normally don’t comment on this thread. Not my place, but this is false. https://what-buddha-said.net/library/pdfs/The_Life_of_the_Buddha.pdf Its quite clear the dropping of the first fetter is non duality, and that the Buddha entered non duality in the very beginning of his 6 year journey. Just read his biography. Non duality = Stream Entry Liberation = Arhatship Another piece of evidence is a sutta. In which one of the buddhas disciples says I am a non returner I have abolished greed and sensual desire. Yet from time to time they may still arise. Paraphrasing a bit. The buddhas response is basically, that you have not. The capacity for greed. Even for a nanosecond. As subtle and as rare as it may be. Means you are far from eradicating it from your system. Most non dual teachers. If they have an ounce of truth in them. Clearly state things still arise for them. They just don’t identify with them. Thus it’s quite clear they have only shed the identity view.

If you’ve had an awakening. I would recommend picking up a traditional path. Zen or Theravada Buddhism, and sticking to it. There is great depth in traditions. People on this forum lack. Post awakening this place will just be a place to reaffirm your beliefs and perspective. Nothing more. Will go something like this. “Post” random person : “non dual line from the non dual bible” another person : “yes, non dual line from the non dual bible” Yet another person : “no, non dual line from the non dual bible” Also if 5 meo was all it’s cracked up to be. Most the people on this forum wouldn’t all be desperately clinging to their non dual beliefs with a ton of neurosis they deny. Most not in a permanent awakened state. Including Leo. Nor would Martin ball. The primary advocate of said drug be having massive chemical imbalances within his system, that didn’t allow him to sleep for 6 days straight. I’ve done 5 meo too. More than a few times. Not just speaking without experience.

Buddha used the term released. It’s more appropriate. Enlightened has a lot of subconsious baggage around it, and those who think they are it. Regardless of the depth of their non dual state still carry subconsious arrogance and other issues.

Our subconsious has insights. Ideation. Even if the consious parts of ourselves don’t attach to these ideas they shape our experience. These subconsious ideas limit reality. “All is consciousness” might be based in a truth but lacks nuance. You are simply outgrowing it.

@thesmileyone Fantasies and the inability to look at the world honestly due to fear and other subconsious blocks. A more extreme version of what makes you claim everything is consciousness so it’s all good. Minus the non dual shift.

@Preetom That having an unrealistic image of the path is harmful. Escapist, and fantasy chasing. Saying getting rid of the I perspective is the same as being desireless is one such image.

@Preetom No it’s not. Alan Watts was awake, but a drunk. He desired alcohol. Many other examples exist. That’s just one. @Jack River After my comment too. Told you lol.

90 percent of posts on here are generated by bots using non dual talking points. *reading post* *mentions desire* *engage* The real you is beyond desire. Desire is not essential to it. *mission successful*

@Aakash Good insight and good approach:)

@Tony 845 Sorry it I came across like I was putting you down or aggressive. That wasn’t my aim. My point still stands though. Gl

@Tony 845 the quote thing is so ridiculous lol. Once talked to a non dual teacher. He kept saying I in quotes. I was like smh. Dissociation and rejection of the tendencies in ones system. Isn’t woke. It’s the opposite. It’s rejection. Not acceptance. Even if you wake up and realise your aren’t just the body and it’s issues. The body will still be there. To pretend otherwise would be self deceit.

There is an immense amount of craving, and a sense of urgency in you. Learn to relax or life will beat it out of you. You ain’t escaping the world anytime soon. Even if you fully awaken.

@Aakash Being aware of awareness is basic non duality. Irrelevant to what your speaking about or what I’m talking about. My point simplified would be your idea of sitting down and being okay with it. Is due to a fantasy, a craving, of being complete without facing the world that ur non a fan of subconsciously. Not wanting to face the world, the fantasy it gives birth to, the thoughts surrounding it are all due to aversion. In life people throw themselves into their cravings due to fantasies of being fulfilled. That’s one extreme. Other extreme is monks and ascetics forcefully trying to rid themselves of craving. Refusing to acknowledge the word due to subconsious fear, chasing fantasies and thoughts like the ones that led you to write this post. Which is what everyone the path falls for. Middle path is falling for neither. I’d also add since your awakening. To chill. You’ll realise soon enough. No amount of being aware of awareness will rid you of your issues. Hence why every teacher had issues. True growth starts after full awakening.

Your desires are karmic realities that exist post awakening and stabilising into non duality. You have no say in whether your body wants to breath, your craving for security, your fear of the unknown when shit gets real. Its easy to be in a high peak awakened state and think nothing matters when your subconscious issues aren’t being triggered. Does not mean they aren’t there. Peoples ignorance of how deep the rabbit hole goes is tremendous. Asides from all that. Your description of desirlelessness is actually aversion. Rejection. Fuelled by fantasies of utter completion and fears of the reality on the ground. The middle path is neither falling into craving nor being enticed by the fantasy of aversion, transcendence. That is the biggest trap pre and post awakening into non duality.

@Leo Gura Seems like you’ve grow a lot. Congrats.

Insights that lack nuance, hyped and generalised lose value to a great degree. Here is a teaching : if your body is healthy it’ll improve your quality of life. It’s quite true. Nuance is synonymous with growth. Overarching absolutist statements often mean you live ina. Isolated reality disconnected from how things actually are.

Typical Non dual teacher responses when asked do you suffer? Yeah, but the ego falls away as soon as it arises. or Another common answer is pain might arise but I don’t make it worse but identifying with it. Or Things arise, come and go but they are not me A few flat out say they still suffer. David Spero, Jan esmann, Craig Holliday. Non duality is not what’s promised. Its not what your think. It’s just the beginning of another journey: Doesn’t matter that your third eye is weird, doesn’t matter if u have kundalini. People have spiritual processes happening to them for decades sometimes. Aim for consistent growth. Not escapism. If you chase fantasies. When non duality comes you’ll have paid too much for it to look at it honestly, deluded yourself and prevent further growth. Relax, grow, practice, and more importantly be a good person. To those around you and to yourself.

@winterknight nor did I.

@Sharp if u playing a game. It’s kind of weird to always be like it’s just a game. Pffft other players don’t get it’s a game.... If you do that. Your just a weirdo in the game.