Arhattobe

@Leo Gura Understand your point, but it is not an arbitrary definition I came up with by myself. Asides from my own experience and understanding. It’s the Buddhas words, Theravada Buddhist teachings, amongst numerous other teachings and teachers that stress the difference between awakening and the eradication of karma, vasanas, and defilements. As to why it’s worth stressing. It’s because if one lands on the path to awakening yet does not know which direction he should go after. He might wander off, get lost and end up in the forest of delusion. This is the value of teachings like Theravada Buddhism.

@Salvijus : ) @AlwaysBeNice It being overrated is just a judgement you just made. One can say the same about non duality and awakening. You are just doing it with the post awakening process.

@mandyjw It is. What you said is just some idealistic view of life. What I’m talking about has little to do with perfection, but ridding yourself of all that limits your perspective. @Enlightenment when I had little internal dialogue I though no internal dialogue would be impossible. Yet it is possible. How vast the difference is between my aversion level in the past and now is also something I couldn’t imagine. The only issue right now is that you can’t imagine the words of Buddha being true. Your reference point is too limited. Most of this is clearly described in Theravada. In detail.

It’s delusional and dangerous to think you can see things with perfect clarity without ridding yourself of all defilements.

Never said you did. The ridding of defilements goes hand in hand with full enlightenment, however, for each defilement, each piece of subconscious baggage and energetic blockage distorts and does not allow for full clarity. This has little to do with moral perfection and behaviour. It is about ridding one’s self of delusions that persist beyond awakening. Delusions that limit one’s reference point. That is how depth is gained. Therein lies the difference between a Buddha and someone on this forum taking about how they don’t exist in a manic state.

@Enlightenment There is a noticable difference between little and none. If you have always had loud music playing in the background your whole life. When someone turns it down a bit it might appear to be almost silent. Yet this is simply due to a lack of reference point. Such a thing will repeat and repeat, even after the loss of internal dialogue. To a point that one can not imagine. Not because of its amazing nature but merely because our only reference point is our own experience. I am not at the end of the process though, but it’s pattern is abundantly clear, and each month my experience changes in ways that could not have imagined before. My aversion lessens in ways I could not have imagined, because I did not even see most of the seeds for my aversion. The subconscious hardwired baggage that shaped my view and perspective. All of this is talked about in Theravada Buddhism. In Theravada abiding in emptiness is merely the beginning, and most of the path after checks out with my experience.

@Enlightenment In Theravada Buddhism they describe how defilements are shed in detail. At a certain point for example one loses one’s internal dialogue. Then layers underneath churn less and dissipate. This is all evident both within my experience, scripture and a few teachers here and there. Many hardwired issues that I couldn’t even imagine life without have left me. The process is very clear. No agency is merely that no agency. I was in non duality for 2-3 years before the process became evident to me, and really jumpstarted. It also doesn’t happen to everyone. In Hindu traditions this is called eradicating vasanas, this what “gaining depth” and stages refer to. This is the whole basis of the post awakening process.

@Enlightenment There are also people that meditate for decades but don’t awaken. Don’t understand your point. “Eradication of defilements is not possible I’ve never met any”... A lot of mystical traditions equate the eradication of defilements with full enlightenment. Theravada Buddhism being the most sober, and if you have been awake for a number of years and you pay close attention to the energetic process within you this becomes very clear.

Pretty sure you don’t understand what I mean by the end of defilements.

@tsuki What do you mean?

Full enlightenment rids you of all defilements and the energetic and physical issues that are a consequence of their existence. Simple stream entry does is what your describing and tbh it shouldn’t be thought of as enlightenment. Just awakening. The path after is long and hard.

@Leo Gura Spiritual work is certainly messy so are the people attracted to it. Me included. Kundalini, energetic activations and awakenings as a whole can certainly cause one to be hit with a dose of reality that at times can result in anything from psychosis to depression and suicidality. In fact unless you’ve been through very dark nights of the soul you will not see the futility of your effort and will therefor remain lost in mind creation. Yet. Kundalini, awakening and natural activations are purposeful. With rhyme and reason in their own way. You retain some sense of sobriety to deal with the issues at hand and your system has time to get used to the energetic inflow and increase. With psychedelics you are forcing your body and mind to withstand a level of energy it is not prepared for. With a mind that is not ready for what it will see, full of defilements that will pervert and distort all that’s seen. For example you see crazy things and experience crazy things regularly yet your baseline is not awake according to yourself. All of this is problematic. Asides from all this psychedelics magnify ones blind side as well the positive effects it is reported to have. I say all this based on many samples and my understanding of the human energetic system. I’ll also add the extreme nature of the symptoms are also a thing Ive seen with psychedelics. Martins insomnia is extreme, my own and other people I know that suffered backlashes from regular psych use also had extreme symptoms. At the end of the day come to your own conclusions. Just sharing my perspective.

@DrewNows True awakening is the eradication of all defilements. True progress is ridding oneself of baggage in a stable and healthy manner. Extreme mystical states, and the highs of awakening pass. Psychedelics just give you insights, but if your the same person with the same issues you will misunderstand, and pervert them because of all the issues you have. They also have a lot of drawbacks. They Can trigger schizophrenic tendencies, amplify insomnia as seen in Martin and seretonin, among a whole host of issues that can be very problematic. when you do them regularly you are essentially burning out your nervous system. It is a terrible idea.

@Serotoninluv Yep. Martin the man that was the sole case study for 5 memos supposed power to enlighten a person and retain such “enlightenment” was just doing it wrong. Not listening to his body. (Sarcasm)

That’s a lot of stuff, but sure if I get to it : ) & Theravada Buddhism. Read the whole dhamma section. Then check out the renunciation and drawback section to get you started, and understand Theravada a little bit. https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/index.html book wise. Don’t know many that are that good. Puredhamma is also good website. Chore to read through though. Lot of old terms

If your too invested in something you won’t really want to see evidence to the contrary. Dont expect people on this forum to be like “oh yes, good point” I’ve said for a long time Martin isn’t enlightened, and that constant 5 meo use is a terrible idea. Made a post months ago saying just that. Just takes a while to see the aftermath of copious amounts of psychedelics sometimes.

Relax man....

@Leo Gura Why thank you dear

Also Leo : “Love is fundamental” lol

@Aakash here is a post I made 5 mins ago. Telling you to relax. lol

I still don’t understand what your saying lol I say it’s some man? What is some man?

@Aakash I don’t think you understand yourself. Just hyped off of something some dude said, and in a heightened emotional state. Relax

@Aakash what’s your point?

@Aakash don’t understand what you are saying

The I is essentially a mechanism born out of survival. Fear, and response to fear. Control mechanisms. In humans it just goes beyond the instinctual I. It takes conscious form. Intellectual form and so on. Basic non duality seed through the intellectual level of I yet the body and survival mechanisms still operate. Animals just don’t have the intellectual layers. They are certainly trapped in their survival mechanism. Fear and cravings. In fact they see nothing beyond it.