Bauer1977

Hmmm.... I see what you are getting at. Interesting....

It's not that I am bothered by it, it was what it was. And there is no doubt that there is more work to do. But there is a feeling that I am very close to where I want to be. And I don't feel the actor analogy works in this instance, because the process to Enlightenment is necessary in order to escape the illusion, and it is a struggle that feels very real to anyone who is lost within the illusion. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be any reason for you to offer advice to on this chat board. I think virtual reality is a better example. If a person believes they are going to get stepped on by a giant in a virtual world, the emotional response is genuine, even though the threat is not. And when that emotional response is owned, that's what matters to that person at that time, illusion or not. Why I ask is because I don't think I can help others with their struggles if I deny the memory of my Ego perspective and my own experience. For almost everyone in this world the suffering is very real, and they can't simply choose to ignore it or pretend to suddenly be Enlightened, and act as though the knowledge of life being an illusion will bring them relief. With my own experience I have found it very frustrating at times when spiritually advanced people talk in terms that are unrelatable, and only from the perspective they now have, so their words can only truly be understood by other spiritually advanced people. As though they have forgotten what it was like to believe that you are real, and what it was like to deal with their own struggles in trying to understand things properly. There is real value in being relatable. The Red Book gives Carl Jung's work so much more value. It humanized him, It made him to be just like anyone else. Prior to it being released in the early 2000's, he just seemed like a genius that had access to God's mind which allowed him to know things that would be impossible for anyone else. So once one understands the fact of the illusion, I don't think there is value in pretending that it no longer matters. Because for almost everyone else alive, its the only thing that matters. And their only way out if it, is to acquire the understanding they require in order to change their perspective.

I know what your getting at.... but even as an illusion, yeah, the pain and suffering affected my life/experience very deeply. Sure, I can acknowledge the fact of the illusion now, and say no, it wasn't really real.... but I was trapped by the illusion at the time, and it felt real at the time. very real. I can easily see now that it was necessary and it was all God's will. I just wonder if there is an easier way for people to come to understand their true nature.

Well, that's amazing. BOOM!!! Is all that suffering to get here really necessary?

Hey Winterknight..... I seem to really be in a good place, but I want to get your perspective because I am unclear if what I see is what you see. In Self-Inquiry I have been able to get past the intrusion of the small i and its expectations. I have been left with the realization that there is absolutely nothing to do.... I mean at all. Every act in the world, big or small, every idea and even every thought appears to be God's will. I appear to truly be nothing more than an observer and have seemingly handed over any idea of my individual will to God. My conclusion is that I should embrace and appreciate the positive, and simply accept and transcend the negative as a necessary part of the illusion... and life will simply play out as it does. It feels right, but it also seems too good to be true. Is really that easy? 16 years of pain and suffering on this spiritual journey, and it's that easy? I don't know, it feels right but it also feels too good to be true and somehow wrong... maybe it just seems too simple..... thoughts?

Man, you are a gem! I have been working on this today, and for the first time I now notice a discernible difference between the Ego ideas and beliefs of Ron that sneak into the field of awareness when I am focused on Self-Inquiry, and the reality of I. Only I has control.... I knew this, but I didn't truly understand all the things that could happen while in that state I guess. I had found the peacefulness of I, although holding it for long periods of time has been difficult. But still, I thought it was all systems go. Somehow I missed this. It seems every time I tell you about these things you right the ship immediately. Amazing!! If only I had found you 4 or 5 years ago, the pain and suffering you may have spared me................. But it clearly wasn't God's will. Question: When the monks and guru's meditate for hours or even days at a time, what are they focused on? Is it just holding that state of peacefulness of the "I"?

That has been the issue exactly. The idea that there is something more or something else has been with me a lot. I can definitely see it as being an old way of thinking now that you say that. It's the previous 16 years of knowledge accumulation and reading that I have done with regard to my spiritual journey. The idea that the information I had acquired over that time frame could be holding me back had never occurred to me. I will try that query with my next attempt at Self-Inquiry. Thanks

Hey Winterknight.... So I have been holding the feeling of God is I, or I is God, as much as possible. It has given me a very peaceful perspective, that change in me has been noticeable. I have also kept up on Self-Inquiry. I feel I have developed a really good sense of my, or the, "unknowable source", and my relationship to it. There have been many great insights regarding Oneness, and the connectivity and the structure of all things. These haven't come as the result of any real effort to have them, they just seem to appear while doing the Self-Inquiry exercise. I genuinely feel as though the concept of Oneness and God is an absolute truth, but unfortunately this has not yet been verified by experience. I have always read about the experience of God Consciousness as the individual experiencing their own energy as the energy of the entire universe. Is my thinking to limited on this? Is there something I am missing, or something that I can do to trigger such an experience? Or is it really just a matter of waiting on grace now? As a note... I can't say that the "I" has a describable feeling for me now. It just is out of nothingness. If nothingness is God, the "I" is the eye of God. That's the only way I can describe my Inquiry of it (shout out to David R Hawkins). Is the concept of "is-ness" with regard to "I" maybe something that needs to be pursued? If so, how would one approach that?

Hey Winterknight.... I just wanted to let you know that I thank you, and that I am very appreciative of your help. I studied Freud, Jung and David R Hawkins for 15 or 16 years, and I had hit a wall. I needed a new perspective to get over the hump, and you certainly provided that. Before you ask me who the I is that is thankful and appreciative, let me save you the time by adding it here now.... I is God. Or actually, God is I. There seems to be a noticeable shift in me by reversing those 3 words. I think it has something to do with the fact that for me "I" meant my Ego for so long, that now by changing this statement to God is I, it reverses the direction of the energy. I is no longer the center of me looking for God. God is the center now, and is obviously the source and creator of my experience. So, it feels more appropriate to say "God is I". Cheers, Ron

No worries..... and yes, it is a peaceful place. The ultimate with regards to peacefulness.

Would you agree that the illusion of duality and everything, sprung from nothingness and the simple sense of being? Because that's my conclusion after realizing that I is God.

After reading your response, it occurred to me that all the "I am" entries should be changed to "I is". I went back into the void tonight with that knowledge and tried this again.... when I was in that presence in nothing ness, Here is what I observed: - I is a presence, a non dual singularity, pure Consciousness. - I know that God is a presence, a non dual singularity, pure Consciousness. - Therefore I is God! Its clear to me now how ego, free will and will power are illusions feeding a perspective of individuality. It is the illusion of free will and will power that keep the illusion of an individual ego relevant. And God lets the illusion play out like a dog chasing its tail. The part that always stumped me, was that we must have will power if we, as ego, can choose to find God. But now I see how its a part of the illusion as well. Once the illusion of will power seeks to resolve the illusion of free will and ego, all 3 appear to collapse upon themselves. But it also now makes sense that if ego doesn't choose to use its own illusion of will power to seek out its own truth, the illusion of its own existence will remain intact. So in a way, the ego actually does have a certain amount of control over its own idea of existence, as it feeds its own illusion. No wonder this has been so hard to understand. Will power does affect the individual perspective/experience until it is acknowledged as being an illusion and is surrendered to God. It can now be recognized as always having been God, but with blinders on. Now, with I as God, there clearly is no ego, no free will and no will power. I is a singularity. This realization still never triggered an awe inspiring spiritual experience where my energy is the universes energy, like I read about others having. But now the nature of ego and God seem so obvious. What I will hold in my mind moving forward is, I is God.

Hey Winterknight... I just had this interesting experience. I have had trouble sleeping since our last communication. So I googled a technique that instructed me to find the source of "I" as before, or lack thereof. And to breathe darkness into my Self to begin meditation before trying to go to sleep. So I started to breathe in darkness and began to black out every cell in the body until it was completely gone, then I blacked out the mind, then ultimately the entire field of awareness. After a while, "I" was left in a black void of darkness. And the realizations of what I experienced, and then repeated as the process developed went as follows: - Just be, there is no time and no form (repeated from the start, maybe 100 times total) - I am perfect nothingness (realized a bit later, repeated maybe 80 times) - I am a presence, aware of myself (realized a bit later again, repeated maybe 50 times) - I am God (realized a fair bit later, repeated only 5 - 10 times) This left me somewhat in shock. This exercise took me somewhere I did not expect to go. Is there anything to this? Could this be God Consciousness? I wish I could tell you more, but I didn't experience much in the moment. I just repeated it all a few more times to see if some profound experience would develop from there. But it didn't. Then I figured I needed to let you know to get your thoughts.

At this point I am not sure I have come to terms with my new reality to that degree just yet. But I hope that's what I end up with. That sounds amazing.

Awesome!!! Thanks so much for your help!! I was so close but yet so far..... it's funny to me how that whole thing unfolded. I will definitely work on holding the sense. It took about an hour or so until I after I sent you that last message. But I was filled with Bliss for an hour or 2 once the fact of what had happened had settled in for me. So there was ultimately a reaction after all.

OK, progress I think.... While contemplating the question "who am I?".... I eventually realized that I was lost in the pictures and visions within the mind, and I was not going to find the answer in the mind. Then it was like watching a blob of ooze floating away which I considered to be the mind. It was at that point in the darkness that I realized that "I" was always looking outwards. Therefore my search was always outward, which meant that what I really wanted to find (the source) was impossible to examine. The source of the light that has been shining on all the other images and bringing them into the field of awareness is the "I". And its impossible to shine the light of awareness back onto its own source. It answers the question you gave me that needed a no answer, with a no..... Am I aware of it? To be aware of it is actually impossible. I can only ever have a sense of it. It's an entity that exists behind everything else. And as I understand things, that is the Self. I feel like this is progress, but now what? I feel like there is more work to do. I remember you said it was very unexciting, but it was so uneventful I feel like there has to be more, I sort of expected to have a spiritual experience or some sort of release of energy.... but there was literally no reaction within me. What are your thoughts?

I know you are right. I have relied on thinking throughout this entire process, but thinking has taken me as far as it can. I am trying to think less as I contemplate. This task of self inquiry gets my mind swirling to the point where I get headaches just from trying to get my head around it. But even so, the last insight and recognition that "I" is either everything or nothing (God), did appear to open a door to something that I hadn't been aware of before. I will keep working at it. As the little "i", "i" feel all the pieces are in place and "i" just need to find a way to accept my Self as "I" am, and to just let go.

You might claim that it isn't a riddle. But it is a question that does not have an answer, and the search is exhausting. The truth is that there is no source of "I". "I" is either nothing or everything. I just is. When I say "I", I truly don't know what "I" am referring to. God maybe....

The answer is awareness. I don't have awareness, "I" am awareness, and "I" am aware of my own awareness (or of my Self). "I" am not sure how to express that without using the word "I". And when "I" use the word "I", "I" mean my body/mind as well as my awareness. Even though the body/mind is within the illusion, "I" continue to acknowledge that it is still part of my experience, and therefore a part of me and a part of all things that collectively make up the illusion. Or to word it another way.... Being aware of awareness is the source and the certainty that "I", as awareness, have that "I" (awareness) exist. Without awareness, there could be no source or certainty. It would be impossible to know. And there couldn't be an "I" to know either. It takes a conscious being to examine Consciousness, or one must be able to understand in order to understand the meaning of the word "understand". You might say that's an intellectual answer. "I" have studied a great deal of literature regarding Enlightenment for many years. "I" am unsure how to contemplate anything or my Self without it. Is that not a proper approach? If so, what would the work around be to that?

Yes, I agree. But even the chaos isn't chaotic. It just appears so. Quantum Mechanics explains this so well. I feel I am now satisfied with my understanding on the matter.

Given that free will is an illusion, and I am fully onboard with that idea. Does that then mean that our individual lives are scripted from conception, and even including conception? If we truly are nothing but awareness, and every thought and decision is given to us, what role do we have in our own growth, development and enlightenment? If there really is zero control, coupled with the knowledge that time is also an illusion, doesn't it seem as though every moment of creation within the illusion of duality would have to be completely scripted throughout all time? How could it be any other way given the laws and structure of the universe?

As I understand it, will power is essentially acceptance. We can choose to accept our reality as it truly is. In which case our actions are 100% in line with our natural reality. We can flow with nature with this attitude. We also have the ability to not accept our reality as it, and wish to seek another reality instead. This would be grasping at the illusion that Ego has some control. In which case we will not flow with nature and will struggle to progress. The thing is though, choosing to accept your reality as it really is a choice that is made in every moment. Its a moment to moment decision made over and over again. 1000s of times each day. Quitting smoking is a big picture idea. Not smoking the next cigarette is the decision for the moment. That decision made over and over again ultimately results in no longer smoking. As nature intends I am sure. At least that's how I understand it. And my mind is satisfied with this concept.

I contemplated on the source of my certainty that I exist for several hours. The truth is that I could not find one. I do not have a feeling of certainty that I exist. In fact, the only proof I could find that I do exist is the awareness I had of my own search. Either that is the solution to the riddle, or I am doing it wrong..... I feel this went as it was supposed to go. There was a feeling of a higher understanding at this realization of sorts, but nothing significant occurred with this result. Do I keep repeating the process over and over until Ego breaks down? I Am just really unsure how this is all supposed to come together at this point.

Exactly. I can't explain why I do what I do here. As I understand things I am not in control. Every explanation would just be an excuse

From what I have learnt over the years, it seems to be very likely that the Source (God) has created the Universe, or the realm of reality, or the illusion, for the simple sake of there being a realm of experience/duality/creation/separateness, as opposed to there just being a state of Being/stillness. Simply because something is better than nothing. Maybe you agree, maybe not, but that makes sense to me. Given that, God or the source seemingly created souls for there to be an individualistic and separate illusory entity from the source. Then souls were tasked with guiding a human life over many many lifetimes into a state of Enlightenment. Once a person reaches Enlightenment, doesn't it seem likely that the soul also becomes aware of its own true nature and illusory separateness from the source as well? The entire structure of the illusion appears to me to be set up like a game. Once the vale of the illusion is removed, the human and the soul both become aware of their own true nature within the Oneness of all things, not as part of the source or linked to it, but as the source. At this point, it also becomes clear that there never was a soul anyways, it had also been an illusion all along. Does it seem reasonable that the soul has also completed its task and is then destined to dissolve back into the source once that Enlightened human lifetime has ended? It seems to me that the entire structure of the illusion is set up entirely for the sake of their being an illusion of separateness. Once that is gone, that's it. And once that has been resolved there really is no other point, no where else to go, nothing else to do and nothing else to be. Obviously the source continues with the creation of new souls and the illusion continues on forever and ever, as it has forever. It seems to me that the whole purpose of the illusion is really just for the sake of there being an illusion. And the purpose of souls and humans is to figure it out. However long it takes, it doesn't really matter anyways because there is nothing else to do, and no where else to be. Once Oneness has been remembered and re-established, how can there be a spirit world, or some other state of separation or individualized existence on some other level?