ivory

Okay, here's the deal. Anyone that tells you that you will completely transcend emotion is full of shit. It's a common misconception in spiritual circles, and it's one that pisses me off dearly. I wrote about this just yesterday here: TLDR; You will always experience some level of emotion. Some clear up, some lessen, some will cease to bother you. I love this quote by Jack Kornfield because it's calling out the BS misconceptions about spiritual life: If you can sit quietly after difficult news; if, in financial downturns you remain perfectly calm; if you can see your neighbours travel to fantastic places without a twinge of jealousy; if you could happily eat whatever is put on your plate; if you can fall asleep after a day of running around without a drink or a pill; if you can always find contentment just where you are: you are probably a dog.

@MysticSoul I don't have a clear vision yet. Honestly, I think the best I can do is help people with some of the challenges that I have overcome or some of the things where I have reached a certain degree of mastery: social skills, addiction, meditation. I don't feel ready to do any of those things just yet. In the mean time, I am considering pursuing a trade job. I am currently a software engineer and I hate it. What kind of career did you make happen?

For the world to move into green - OR - To have a clear vision of meaningful work. I am very unsatisfied in my career right now and I don't see an easy way out.

@Parththakkar12 It doesn't take much for a guy to be physically attractive. A girl doesn't have to be HOT or look like a slut. A cute outfit and a cute face is all it takes. I think @soos_mite_ah is overcomplicating this. Appear open, be warm, and look cute. Boom.

I see a ton of people asking about shadow work on this forum. I think it's because they want to make personal development more complicated than it is. Which is exactly what shadow work is... an overly complicated model for personal development. People who do shadow work are the most lost and confused people I have come across in spiritual circles. That said, shadow work is a form of depth psychology. There's a guy in michigan who writes about depth psychology in detail. He's the only guy I've come across who makes "shadow work" relatively easy to understand and apply. You can check out his work here: WHY WE SUFFER

Welcome to a man's world! We have a barrage of thoughts running through our heads... Does she have a boyfriend? Is she going to be mean? It's going to be awkward if I have nothing to say. What if she rejects me or says no when I ask for her phone number?

@ertopolice I think it's biological instinct not ego

I hear that from women a lot. Most want to be approached. Once and a while I'll meet a woman who enjoys the thrill of the hunt and goes after men themselves. I dated a girl like that when I lived in Portland, a feminist, and I really admired her. I really think that most women can learn a lot from her. I can understand why women would screen for the more confident guys by expecting them to approach, but I can also understand why a women would want to feel empowered and have some control in her life.

@ertopolice Do you use meetup.com? I made most of my friends through discussion-oriented meetup groups. Before COVID we would meet at bars to discuss various topics. Politics, spirituality, science, history, health, etc. Once COVID hit the groups started meeting online via ZOOM. See if you can find any groups on meetup.com that are organizing online. If not, you can always start a new group to bring together people that interest you.

Travel more, make new friends, go on dates, explore your city, try new hobbies, read, listen to podcasts, watch documentaries, etc. You will have no direction in life until get clear on what you want. You won't know what you want until you see what's out there.

@Blightlantern Your situation is pretty common amongst those on a self-development journey. I have been through it as have many on this forum. The younger you are the more painful and isolating you will feel. Most don't consider deeper topics until they reach a certain level of maturity. How old are you? I moved around quite a bit and have spent time in some liberal and some conservative cities and neighborhoods. Where you live matters so make sure you plant roots in an area with a lot of diversity. Keep in eye out for people who: travel, meditate, do yoga, study philosophy, read, watch documentaries, listen to podcasts, are politically liberal, nature lovers, activists, health conscious. If your social circle doesn't look like I just described then you need to get out as much as possible and find your tribe. Also, make sure you temper your expectations with a dose of reality. Don't expect to meet many who are truly on the spiritual path. Keep an open mind and try to find GREEN friends.

@Heaven Jealousy gets a bad wrap. I don't care how "spiritual" a person is, human emotion isn't fully transcended. Ever seen a jealous dog? Jealousy is natural. That said, you can't let jealousy hijack the relationship. Neediness is cancer to a relationship. Also, this girl sounds a bit immature. At a certain level of maturity girls realize that guy friends are mostly dudes waiting for the opportunity to fuck her. This isn't true in all cases, but it's a common dynamic. Girls should also be empathetic to their partner's jealousy. If a girl can't understand your concerns, then you need to ask yourself why you're wasting time on someone who invalidates your feelings. If I were you I would kick off a conversation like this, "It's not easy for me to talk to about this with you because I'm not used to being vulnerable, but I care about you and I don't want to lose you. I will never try to control you or tell you what to do, but your guy friends make me feel insecure because it's obvious that they are attracted to you. I would appreciate it if you could reassure me from time to time, and it would be great if I could get to know your friends better to put my mind at ease."

Shy people tend to be hard to read, boring, and uncomfortable to be around and that is less than ideal for most people. I'm a recovering shy person but I tend to be drawn to girls who are expressive, interesting, and warm. That said, many guys aren't very picky about the girls they are with as long as they are attractive and are willing to have sex with them. Shyness may not be the only reason guys aren't into you but it's hard to say without knowing you.

@Shunyata The first question I'd ask you is, how are you taking care of yourself? Do you meditate, exercise, eat healthy? Do you have addictions? If your health practices aren't good, you aren't going to have much motivation. Second, if you don't know which way to go, you aren't going to be motivated to go anywhere. It's really normal to be confused about where you want to go. Especially at the college level. I was super depressed in college for that very reason. My advice here would be to talk to college counselors. Get all the help you can get. That said, you are young, shit will come to you as you get more life experience. So make sure you aren't wasting all of your time alone and avoiding life. You need to get out there and have some experiences.

@preventingdiabetes Just out of curiosity, how old are you? What you've described here resonates with me. I went through it several years ago. It was a rather bumpy ride, so hang in there. You didn't elaborate on your inauthentic desires or misguided efforts so I can't make specific advice. Perhaps you want validation, money, power, or were fueled by avoidance or the promise of comfort... I'm not sure. Nor did you share your strengths or interests. Perhaps you can chime in. That said, the following advice is pretty much universal. It is guaranteed to be authentic because it's all an expression of love (self-love that is)... Focus on taking care of your health. Get good sleep, exercise, meditate, eat nutritious meals, give up all addictions. Also, make sure you have a good crew of friends you enjoy being around and that treat you well. The idea here is that you want to be taking excellent care of yourself. What could be more authentic than that? Start there and figure out where you want to go next. This should keep you busy for a while.

I bet we'd get a lot of different definitions if we asked multiple people to define "emotional mastery". To me all it really means is understanding how emotions come and go and being competent with tools for dealing with emotions so that they are no longer running your life. It requires diligence, courage, and life-long commitment. Someone with a fair level of emotional mastery is going to understand impermanence on a deep level. That is to say that emotions don't last, but neither does transcendence or the quality of our practice. Here is what I've learned about the nature of emotion: It is true that some emotions stop arising in certain situations, particular through repeated exposure. Emotions also stop arising as we heal from trauma and loss. Sometimes emotions don't go away, but the intensity lessens. Other times emotions return or increase in intensity as our exposure to them lessens or when we stop practicing. The last thing I've realized is that life is always changing so we will always have emotional reactions as life throws new challenges at us. I don't like the term emotional mastery because it implies a destination or transcendence or some other bullshit like that. However, I do believe that we can tap into equanimous states with increasing frequency as our understanding and commitment deepens.

@Hawkins I'm a 40 year old software developer and totally relate to your story. I spent a good deal of my life lonely, isolated, and awkward around people. I struggled a lot but learned a ton and eventually came to lead a very fulfilling social life. I just wanted to offer some words of encouragement and perhaps a little bit of advice. First of all it's going to take time to reach your destination. I can see that you are dealing with a lot of frustration but you have to understand that you're not going to see progress overnight. When you get discouraged or feel like giving up, grieve a little, pick yourself back up, and keep moving. Realize that you're not going to click with everyone but you will eventually find people you are compatible with. Be patient and gentle with yourself. Make sure you get as much social interaction as possible. Open up to new experiences and different types of people. The more experience you have the more well-rounded you become and the clearer you get on your values and preferences. Develop yourself and get clear on your direction. I realize that this will be a challenge during the pandemic but it's not impossible and this too shall pass. Take in interest in hobbies, health, education and learning, adventure, and mastery at work. Investing in yourself will boost your confidence and self-esteem and help you find common ground with others. I would highly recommend seeing a therapist to keep you motivated, on track, and mentally healthy. Trust me, it's worth it. Therapists are awesome because they offer a unique perspective and understand the mechanics of suffering. Personal growth can be counterintuitive so working with a professional is invaluable. Self-esteem issues are really difficult to treat on your own. I hope at least some of this is useful. Best of luck to you on your journey.

@ColeMC01 The book Models by Mark Manson is a really good place to start.

@RoerAmit You need to work on self-acceptance, honesty, and vulnerability with others. If you are able to afford it, I would recommend a therapist. Self-acceptance is really difficult to achieve on your own. I'm speaking from experience. That said, there are some things you can do, and that is to get more life experience under your belt. Spirituality development doesn't happen in a bubble. You should strive to be well rounded. Have hobbies, friends, a job you like, read, watch documentaries, explore and adventure. The more developed you become the more attractive you will be to women, but you need to be on your true path, not the path that you think will make chicks like you. Lastly, I would highly recommend the book Models by Mark Manson. It expands on some of the stuff I talked about here and will give you tools to attract women authentically. I can't recommend the book enough. Good luck my dude

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but there are very few people out there who are truly spiritually developed. We're talking way less than one percent of the population. Part of the work we do on this forum is to develop ourselves so we are adaptable and content regardless of circumstance. If you are chronically lonely, sad, or depressed then you still have a good deal of work to do. You need to get to a place where you accept and appreciate people as they are. You aren't going to connect with everyone and you should stay away from toxic people but being lonely all the time is a good indicator that something is off internally. Some or none of this may be true for you but most people who aren't content socially are: lacking social skills, shy, awkward, lazy, needy, excessively introverted, living in an incompatible city, expecting too much from others, underdeveloped, inexperienced, idealistic, arrogant, lacking self-knowledge, using spirituality to avoid real life. This is not a judgement but more of an observation and result of having learned from personal experience. I used to be chronically lonely and a social misfit but now live a very rich and fulfilling social life. My advice to people who haven't found their tribe is to get a lot of life experience and be open to meeting and getting to know a variety of people. To be fulfilled you need to be developed/well-rounded/experienced and that doesn't happen in a spiritual bubble. Continue to be open-minded, curious, accepting, and kind; And don't run away from life's challenges. I am willing to bet that most people on this forum would do quite well pursuing people who meet the following criteria: deep thinkers, creative, well-traveled, health-conscious, intelligent, interesting, politically mature, quirky, meditators, activists, nature lovers, adventurers, readers, documentary lovers. If you are familiar with Spiral Dynamics seek out "green" friends and make that a priority. Make sure you live in an area conducive to developing a healthy and supportive community. Lastly, don't listen to the people who say that you should be content without friends. People need varying levels of social interaction but most of us need a good deal of love and support from others. A life without friends is not only empty but it is also really unhealthy. Beware of those who say otherwise. Wishing you the best on your journey.

Hmm... I'm a huge fan of existentialism. What are these flaws that you speak of? Sounds like the transition from dark night of the soul.

I suffered from anxiety for a long time. First I refused meds but after a year of intense suffering I finally agreed to them. Meds are meant to be used in conjunction with therapy to ease the suffering while you address the root cause of anxiety. Don't come off of meds until you are emotionally stable.

If you are at this level you need to get the hell off this forum and get some real help.

@RoerAmit I'm an ex-PUA. I sucked in the beginning, but reached a semi-advanced level at the end of my 2-year career. By semi-advanced I mean that I was banging one new chick each week while maintaining a consistent rotation of fuck-buddies. Eventually I became a pickup coach and trained hopeless virgins to become lady killers. Here's what I have to say... First, let me preface this by saying that there is a more direct route to having fulfilling relationships with women. Pickup is merely a phase on the journey to authenticity. You may need to practice pickup before you realize that you already have what it takes for women to like you. That may sound nonsensical to you, but you already have what it takes. You just don't know it because you lack experience and have a negative self-image. It's up to you if you want to study pickup or if you want to go the more direct and authentic route... Should you go down the pickup route here's my advice: Study Real Social Dynamics (RSD). Fuck Mystery, he will lead you astray. Now, there are two RSD products I would recommend: 1) "Pimp" by Julien Blanc and 2) The Program by Jeffy. "Pimp" will teach you in-field mechanics where "The Program" will teach you how to game online. Also, if you can get your hands on "RSD Hot Seat" footage, do so. The instructor footage will show you how it's done. Now listen, those are the only products that you need. Don't waste your time going down the youtube rabbit hole filling your head with conflicting bullshit. Now for the practice...Find a wingman and go out regularly. Talk girls that you find attractive. Make sure you hold each other accountable but be gentle on each other. The turtle wins the race here. Do not traumatize yourself with rejection too quickly because you will only quit. Be consistent. Once you start to feel comfortable approaching women and have some successes under you belt you want to do an RSD bootcamp. At this stage you will not be fully confident, in fact, you will likely doubt yourself still, but women are responding positively to you. A well-timed bootcamp will sky-rocket your game to a level you can only dream of. I have seen this time and time again. I started by going to bars three times per week and found an intermediate-level wingman to show me the ropes. At the one-year mark I started having small successes. You may get there more quickly, but I was a huge pussy. At this stage I did an RSD bootcamp. I would not have been ready for it if I went any sooner. The bootcamp was a pivotal moment in my career. Post-bootcamp I was making out with girls at will and getting laid regularly. I felt like I had cheat codes to the female psych. I also picked up a new wingman who happened to be an assistant instructor for RSD, and that only furthered my success. From there I became an assistant instructor at another pickup company that had similar values to RSD. Once my skills surpassed my mentors I developed a system and started coaching on my own. Now, a word of warning... Pickup will teach you some nasty habits that you will eventually have to unlearn in order to have authentic relationships with women. Also, once you become successful, sex will become dry and meaningless. You may even become depressed like Mystery did and wonder why you even put all this effort to arrive at such a low point. This is the stage, and it is a stage, where you are being called to authenticity. By that I mean you will have to drop the facade, be yourself, and engage in meaningful relationships. Should you go down the authentic route: What @outlandish posted above is gold. Read it again, he knows what he's talking about. What women really want is a man who puts his authentic self forward. Authenticity is a long winded topic so I'm not going to offer too much advice there. That's what this forum is for. Get this book: Models: Attract Women through Honesty. IMO, that is the only book you need to achieve real and authentic success with women. You may not be getting every girl you want, but it will teach you to get the girls that are right for you. Read it, practice, and integrate the concepts. Good luck.

I discovered this blog years ago but I stumbled upon it again today. It offers a unique perspective on the causes of suffering. Internal conflict and attachment to negative emotions are a couple of them. The blog is written by a psychologist in Michigan who specializes in depth psychology. Have a look, I'm sure you'll have some good insights. https://whywesuffer.com/