Inliytened1

@whoareyou isn't that your perspective? If you say its absolute truth you are trapping yourself because that's an illusion. That's what was trying to get you to see.

As its been said here before reality is a paradox so its both simultaneously. Its hard for us to wrap our finite minds around it because we can't wrap our minds around infinity! But it is both. Duality/relativity - free will is relative to your perspective. Non-duality/Absolute - just pure Being / Isness - God in purest form..the formless.

@Umar_uk fair enough

@Umar_uk i read that post just now and he was addressing that particular student based on that particular student. He doesn't state that in any of his episodes which are to the masses. So you may be splitting hairs here.

@whoareyou no...you are not realizing this is all dualistic and relative. You will never be able to pinpoint permanent enlightenent. Just like one can't pinpoint or measure an electron in quantum mechanics. You are in the relative. There are only one's interpretations or perspectives of enlightenment. That's all there is in the dualistic world. When you experience the Absolute for yourself, which you have not, then you will be conscious of what Absolutes are. Enlightenment vs non-enlightenment is a duality.

@whoareyou if you take that approach you are limiting yourself to reaching some sort of permanent enlightenment and then no longer growing. You can always deepen your enlightenment. That quest never ends. You can have full non-dual awareness as well as dual awareness, yes, as well as the highest realizations. But that doesn't mean you can't deepen it further still. You seem to be underestimating God here Your Infinite.

@Umar_uk where was it stated that those were the only methods?

Also with glimpses the ego does not fully surrender.

@whoareyou yes..i agree with him. But notice that which he stated his students say happen to them..those are glimpses. When realizations are revealed to you that is a different level above glimpses. So we can split hairs here. When realizations have been revealed - not glimpses - that is still enlightenment. That enlightenment can be deepened. But we can split hairs in the relative all we want.

And that is the main point here. We don't want to mislead students of the path.

If you want to say one is "enlightened" only after having ALL realizations that's fine. When we use the term enlightenent we are in the relative. I'm just stating that these are not experiences of the ego. There is a distinct difference.

@whoareyou this is independent of pyschedelics. My awakenings were without. And i don't think you are grasping this. You are not experiencing anything. You are dead. It is God awakening to himself. Can you make this distinction? You are no longer in the realm of the relative..instead you are in the realm of the Absolute.

@Umar_uk you are correct in that sense. But like i said that's not the case for the majority. I don't think he ever said you couldn't awaken without these methods but i could be wrong on that.

@whoareyou when you die and become God that is enlightenment. You as the ego are reborn and at a different level of consciousness. The old consciousness died. There is something new now. That is still enlightenment. The more this happens the deeper your enlightenment will get until you get to the highest levels of consciousness and realization. A feeling of liberation. But it is all One.

Yes once its seen. And you may be very spiritually gifted which is awesome - but the average person is going to require doing the practices to see through this dream for themselves. Although Consciousness definitely does grow with experience naturally. If what you said were true wouldn't the world be awake by now? God doesn't make it easy for most

@Rilles But what does the best you can mean? You said it right there. Doing the work the best you can means putting it front and center. Make sure you are taking the time to do the work - self inquiry, meditation. Because you can directly know for yourself - but you have to die for it.

Well you guys gotta remember when there is only One..and it is itself then it is both everything and nothing simultaneously

@InfinitePotential it's both of course. That's the paradoxical nature of reality. From your ego's perspective - the dualistic one - you are indeed creating your own reality by the decisions you make. Of course as we know free will or making your own reality is a duality. So from the non-dual perspective it is a boiling pot of pure potential containing every possibility that can possibly play out without actually playing it out. Being or formlessness. Absolute Infinity which i will not dare try to grasp from my vantage point

@Dylan Page it's now widely accepted that they can't be measured because they only exist as probabilities. Even Einstein couldn't dispute that although he originally tried. Not just subatomic particles but any particles. Larger items can be measured to better accuracy but still not to an infinitely accurate amount. There were still a few stragglers out there trying to figure out a way but they were dealt a serious blow in the 80s with additional experiments.

@Mikael89 @whoareyou guys...do the practices and you can become conscious of Oneness. Once this happens the obsessions with other gurus shall cease as they are all you.

Also i think you might be missing the whole point of the episode. The bottom line with what was discovered with Quantum physics is at the subatomic level, subatomic particles could not be measured. A physicist could measure the velocity or momentum, but not the position. Or they could measure the position but not the velocity. And the observer doing the measurement directly affected the measurement itself, skewing the results. It was then determined by the physicists that since something could not be measured it must be stated that what was trying to be measured must not exist. (Logical Positivism) . The two statements were identical. Therefore the electron only existed in a state of potential or possibility - to collapse into a particle only when observed.

@CreamCat yah you never know you don't want anyone else but you to have root access haha.

@Leo Gura which also means its the same as nothing.

Ofcourse not. Anything being said in this forum is dualistic. I don't know about these guys but i never claimed to be able to capture Absolute Infinity with language. it's ok to be dualistic, but be conscious that you are being dualistic. Thats the difference.

I think he means this metaphorically. Yes Infinity is prior to time. And its a strange loop because it was always there and not there simultaneously. But an easy way to verbalize it is to say it went back in time and created itself. But it actually is frozen in the sense that is prior to time and is and isn't simultaneously.