Inliytened1

@whoareyou one thing to add though..the difference is you never come back down the same. So when you have the higher realizations your consciousness shifts. So the later shifts that bring you to liberation were the result or combination of the earlier shifts. Thats why they are all One and Enlightenment is One thing. Hope that makes sense.

@tedens we can have our own perspective. That is the. beauty. I give each deep experience/realization equal value as i have experienced it directly.

@whoareyou yes there is a point where that shift happens. Your right.

@whoareyou There isn't this one moment when all of a sudden as you put it 'actual enlightenment" happens. There is no such thing. Its a slow expansion of consciousness through becoming the Absolute.

@Pure Imagination that's your Ego talking you out of spirituality. The last thing it wants to do is die !! Hahah. Fight back

@tedens and i totally get what they are saying. Im in a state of non-dual awareness now that i wasn't in before my last realization. I can see everything and everyone as One, in my mind and me. I didn't have that consciousness before the last one..which still took time to integrate. And i can also be the dualistic perspective. I can shift my consciousness between both and its wonderful. And im still deepening the non-dual awareness because I'm still in duality more than ide like. So there are levels. But the part is still the whole. So via mystical experience for example if you have the realization that the self is an illision and that you are awareness and then become conscious that reality is a Mind..you at the same time, will be conscious that oh shit, i am also a hollogram! That can be extremely profound and is a part of enlightenment itself. To say its just a mere experience i do not think does it enough justice..but that's just my perspective. Those were some of the first early realizations i had..not just in concept but as revealed to me as the Absolute after ego collapse into Being.

Ill start a separate thread on those. You can make your own decisions after that on whether you consider just one or all realizations and deep non-dual awareness are enlightenment. But in my perspective just one of these is so powerful that you honestly won't care about the difference anymore.

@Enlightenment and yes that's just it....for me and for what i would deem is the path for most people is it is a process. God will not reveal all realizations at once...its way too much for a mortal to handle and you will probably go insane...that's how powerful this stuff is. So i would not diminish a particular mystical experience. Thats all I'm saying. If you want to say you are not fully enlightened until you have had all realizations that's fine. But if that's the case what are all realizations? Before i tell you mine i would like whoareyou to answer since he is such an expert at permanent awakening ")

Truth is prior to proof

@whoareyou isn't that your perspective? If you say its absolute truth you are trapping yourself because that's an illusion. That's what was trying to get you to see.

As its been said here before reality is a paradox so its both simultaneously. Its hard for us to wrap our finite minds around it because we can't wrap our minds around infinity! But it is both. Duality/relativity - free will is relative to your perspective. Non-duality/Absolute - just pure Being / Isness - God in purest form..the formless.

@Umar_uk fair enough

@Umar_uk i read that post just now and he was addressing that particular student based on that particular student. He doesn't state that in any of his episodes which are to the masses. So you may be splitting hairs here.

@whoareyou no...you are not realizing this is all dualistic and relative. You will never be able to pinpoint permanent enlightenent. Just like one can't pinpoint or measure an electron in quantum mechanics. You are in the relative. There are only one's interpretations or perspectives of enlightenment. That's all there is in the dualistic world. When you experience the Absolute for yourself, which you have not, then you will be conscious of what Absolutes are. Enlightenment vs non-enlightenment is a duality.

@whoareyou if you take that approach you are limiting yourself to reaching some sort of permanent enlightenment and then no longer growing. You can always deepen your enlightenment. That quest never ends. You can have full non-dual awareness as well as dual awareness, yes, as well as the highest realizations. But that doesn't mean you can't deepen it further still. You seem to be underestimating God here Your Infinite.

@Umar_uk where was it stated that those were the only methods?

Also with glimpses the ego does not fully surrender.

@whoareyou yes..i agree with him. But notice that which he stated his students say happen to them..those are glimpses. When realizations are revealed to you that is a different level above glimpses. So we can split hairs here. When realizations have been revealed - not glimpses - that is still enlightenment. That enlightenment can be deepened. But we can split hairs in the relative all we want.

And that is the main point here. We don't want to mislead students of the path.

If you want to say one is "enlightened" only after having ALL realizations that's fine. When we use the term enlightenent we are in the relative. I'm just stating that these are not experiences of the ego. There is a distinct difference.

@whoareyou this is independent of pyschedelics. My awakenings were without. And i don't think you are grasping this. You are not experiencing anything. You are dead. It is God awakening to himself. Can you make this distinction? You are no longer in the realm of the relative..instead you are in the realm of the Absolute.

@Umar_uk you are correct in that sense. But like i said that's not the case for the majority. I don't think he ever said you couldn't awaken without these methods but i could be wrong on that.

@whoareyou when you die and become God that is enlightenment. You as the ego are reborn and at a different level of consciousness. The old consciousness died. There is something new now. That is still enlightenment. The more this happens the deeper your enlightenment will get until you get to the highest levels of consciousness and realization. A feeling of liberation. But it is all One.

Yes once its seen. And you may be very spiritually gifted which is awesome - but the average person is going to require doing the practices to see through this dream for themselves. Although Consciousness definitely does grow with experience naturally. If what you said were true wouldn't the world be awake by now? God doesn't make it easy for most

@Rilles But what does the best you can mean? You said it right there. Doing the work the best you can means putting it front and center. Make sure you are taking the time to do the work - self inquiry, meditation. Because you can directly know for yourself - but you have to die for it.