Inliytened1

Karma only exists within the dream. In a new dream- the slate is wiped clean. All is forgiven.

This is very key but it's not so much the purification that keeps the ego returning after enlightenment. It's the attachment. It's God not ready to relinquish the dream. There's more to be done. Perhaps that's purification. Perhaps it's just being more of an asshole But If it's strong enough one will come back. Purification- is actually ego. Because God has no distinction between selfishness and non-selfishessness - or good vs evil. This is because it's love for itself must be absolutely total.

This is foolish because you are not imagining that you are Incarnating into a unicorn. There are various levels and degrees to imagination. Also you have to consider that imagination is infinite- allowing you to imagine or incarnate into a finite being. You didn't imagine you incarnated into a unicorn - furthermore the unicorn would be the physical form it wouldn't be the ego. The ego would be the sense of self as the unicorn. So you are comparing the physical form of a unicorn to a sense of self. Nice try but get with the big boys if you want to talk spirituality.

The you can die but still remain in physical form. This doesn't take away that you died and became God - it just means that you retained physical form. With this retention comes the return of the ego. Of you, if you will. At this point, terrified of death because in death it loses all existence or meaning- which is ultimately the same thing. So now - it will fight agains its dismissal with everything in its power.

Are you saying the body isn't imagined?

Well the ego can die but the body can still be there. The body is being imagined at a higher level of consciousness. To dissolve that would be Masamadhi.

When you cease to think about it it dies.

Everything is mind - so yes. The body is just a firmer or higher level of consciousness not accessible to the ego system. But yes death is just something of the mind. Death is an idea, you are an idea, the body is an idea.. All of it is just a collection of ideas

Mock it if you want to. But what is enlightenment? Do you think it doesn't involve the death of the ego - or what you think you are? The 'self"? And if the body doesn't fall away then the ego mind or state of Consciousness can come back into the body again. It is death and rebirth. But to die again - now that is far more difficult. In fact - it's no longer something that needs to happen. The enlightened being goes on.

That's because you haven't awakened. The paradigm isn't crushed- the ego is literally dissolved. It's entire existence is destroyed. So obviously the next time it returns it is much more cautious and will not allow itself to be dismissed in any way. The beauty of this is that it's not necessary. Ego death need only happen once. The damage was already done. Enlightenment happened.

The ego has no meaning when one awakenings. The ego is selfish because guess what ? It's a self! Awakening is the dissolution of the self. So it will fight against that at all costs. That's why awakenings after initial enlightenment is almost null and void. The ego won't ever let it happen again. He's a sneaky bastard. He has to be, to survive.

@integral it's too perfect. That might in essence be the only problem.

Dave - Can there exist an advanced society in which liberals and conservatives don't exist? Meaning - even the definition of liberals and conservatives was something constructed by the human mind - as we build and construct our societies we run into many complex issues - and in dealing with these issue we see that some people disagree on certain key aspects. What do we want from society? We want survival, but more importantly we want to be happy, and have the resources we need to live a high quality life - the means to experience a good life - while also coexisting with the rest of mankind. How does one navigate this, without coming into conflict with others at some juncture? In other words, how does one not only survive, but thrive, while also being in a state of peace with the rest of mankind? Is it possible or sustainable, and if it is, is it sustainable for long periods of time? such as centuries? Can a society become advanced enough where all of its population can enjoy survival in a fruitful way? Claude - It's an intriguing question about whether an advanced society could exist without the divisions we see between liberal and conservative ideologies. A few thoughts: It may be possible, but would likely require a fundamental shift in how humanity views social/political issues and organizes itself. The liberal vs conservative dichotomy arises from differing perspectives on change vs tradition, equality vs hierarchy, government's role in society, and other core philosophical disagreements about how to structure human civilization. If a society could achieve a very high baseline of wellbeing for all its citizens - meeting universal needs for food, shelter, healthcare, education, safety, and self-actualization - it could potentially reduce some of the conflicts that drive ideological divides. When basic survival needs are met, people may have more harmony on how to pursue higher-level goals and meaning. However, even an advanced society would likely still face complex issues like allocating limited resources, determining collective priorities, making rules about new technologies/situations, and matters of individual rights vs societal good. There could still be differing viewpoints on these issues based on fundamental values and human nature. A harmonious advanced society may require: A unifying set of humanist values like rational skepticism, ethical reasoning, and belief in human rights. A system of government/decision-making that gives everyone a voice and stake. Strong tradition of science/education to resolve issues objectively when possible. Cultural narrative that differences in ideology are natural and not an existential conflict. Ultimately, while ideological divides could potentially be reduced in an advanced, resource-abundant society, differing viewpoints and some level of conflict may always exist due to the complexity of governing a diverse population. The key may be creating robust systems to manage those differences in a fundamentally peaceful, reasoned and ethical way.

@Yimpa I thought we were your therapy? Or are we the reason you need therapy? 😀

Enlightenment is free.

@Javfly33 perfect.

Shine the light! You guys kill me. Love this place.

It means enlightenment. Breaking out of the dream and the ego mind. Your mind right now is locked in the matrix with certain beliefs that you hold keeping you locked there. Open your mind!

Hey bro! Long time..glad you still check in @James123 you'll be back. Where else to discuss spirituality? Unless you are gonna go into isolation and live as a monk. If you do congratulations and I wish you well!

Let's be honest. We are talking about God here- or a higher power. In terms of that there can't be multiple beliefs. If you believe there are multiple paths to God then that is your belief. If you believe that there is no path that is also your belief. You cannot escape a belief. You can directly experience God but that is not part of this discussion. In this case belief can be eluded. The question was can you hold multiple beliefs. It's tricky - but you can only hold one in your heart. Not knowing which is true and holding your mind open is simply the belief that everything is possible.

To hell with society 😀 We cultivate our own Truth in the end. So don't blame the culture.

Now we are talking. The fear of death MUST be ever present. Without it you couldn't exist as finite form. You would dissolve into Infinite Consciousness. The fear of death is not the fear of the cessation of @Someone here. It is fhe fear of all that he holds onto. All of his attachments. The biggest of those is his identity. The falling away of this identity is terrifying. But notice something very interesting here - who is it terrifying to?

I know. It's fascinating to think that death could in fact be an illusion. It breaks the rules of the dream. But then, going against the rules perhaps is thinking outside the box. And who tells you to think inside the box? Well, the box of course. Or those within it. In order to break out of the box you have to learn to have your own mind and not let the minds within the box have enough influence to control your thinking.

If only I could be more like them.

Because it's an illusion! How could anything happen after something that is a fallacy?