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@Aakash You are very welcome

@Jack River Yes but such an absolutist perspective will not be of much use to the average person who is wholly attached to the body Different strokes for different folks.

@Aakash Because at some point you will have to stand up and follow your urges. Just sitting and doing nothing can only be done for so long. After a while you have to deal with your urges for eating, sleeping, moving, etc. and maybe follow desires such as being loved or a good laugh or mental stimulation. Only by realizing the truth of your existence, as a field of awareness rather than a localized ego, can you truly be desireless. That is, existing forever without desire emerging, ever. The best you can achieve with meditation are brief experiences of desirelessness. With realization, you will be permanently merged with your true being which is blissful, eternal, and desireless.

@Aakash Only realization will allow you to truly understand what life without desire means. Happily, a life without desire is happiness and bliss. Sitting and doing nothing without directing awareness on awareness is quite difficult. Of course, it can be done, but it will not produce desirelessness.

@Pouya There is no such thing as an enlightened being. Realizing that comes when you become aware of awareness itself. So do that instead of theorizing

@Aakash No. You want to become aware of your true nature and realize it as unconditional joy and peace. Anything else won't work. What you described there is not something "you" can do.

@Jack River i'd say some knowledge is required in our current age. Sure, it can be done without any knowledge, but i doubt it'll work out for most people without at least an introduction.

@Leo Gura Hmm what was the phenomenology of ego death in your experience? Also, is it different from the realization that you are not really the ego? In my direct experience, abidance as awareness is synonymous with realizing that the ego is not your true self, and that awareness is our real nature. The ego then simply vanishes. It doesn't go down kicking and screaming. Can you share some insight?

@Joseph Maynor Sure, but when you realize, there is nowhere for the realization to go. It won't go back to being veiled. But yeah bringing subconscious attachments to the light for them to be purge is a must for most people. I wrote all about it here: http://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/32850-the-expectation-for-something-to-happen/

I cannot stress the importance of not taking the dimension model as dogma enough. It is just a model like any other. It can never completely capture reality.

@Leo Gura That does ring true. Before realizing I always thought that the world should constantly be guided towards peace and harmony, but now I find surrender the best.

@Leo Gura I understand what you were trying to say now. Now that you have this realization, do you agree with the notion that following peace and (true) happiness is the best compass one has when it comes to navigating life? Since peace really is the nature of consciousness, do you agree that the more peaceful one is, the more he or she is in harmony with true nature?

@tsuki Well that's the thing. One's real nature is not born to begin with. The thing that is born and dies is the body and the ego. Even further exploration reveals that the body and ego are not separate from reality or God. So that's why I want to know how Leo has come to the conclusion that the connection to the self can be cut in the first place. In other words, how does the illusion of ignorance comes about?

@Leo Gura Hey Leo. Welcome back. In the context of what you said here, how do you reconcile it with the idea that "there has never been ignorance in the first place?" Through my own direct experience with awareness, i've become conscious of the fact that life happens mysteriously through the will of God. Thoughts, words, emotions, feelings etc. ultimate showed themselves to be phenomena within a multi-sensory field of awareness, which is the true self. How then, do 'lies' cut connection to God, and whose connection do they cut to begin with?

@yangmilun Well first try and get a clear picture of what enlightenment really is about. Read books on the subject.

A while ago I realized something interesting and I thought I share it with you. Of course this has been talked about by sages and saints before, but to experience it first hand, becoming aware of it, and then eliminating it was still powerful and liberating enough to be worth repeating. What I'm talking about is the subconscious desire for enlightenment to happen when you do any kind of spiritual practice. When we sit down to do inquiry, or yoga or any other spiritual practice, we enter into the whole affair with the expectation for some outcome to happen. This desire might be conscious, but it is usually not. Well the issue here is that this expectation itself can be a powerful obstacle in front of realization. This expectation is really "the desire" for enlightenment as a material object to be possessed. Desire, as you know, is the other face of suffering. When we talk about 'enlightenment' we should be aware that we only do so loosely. We talk about "becoming" enlightened or "having" an awakening, for lack of a better term, but this is really not the case. Realizing that there really is no one who is to become enlightened is the work itself. In other words, enlightenment is not something to be desired, and then freshly regained anew. Enlightenment is your real nature, already. Enlightenment is the realization that there has never been any ignorance in the first place. Don't let this simple idea go past you without experiencing it directly. Really contemplate on it and dig deep into it during a meditation session. What does it actually mean? What is its significance for YOU. Assuming that this is a real truth, how to reconcile your own inner experience with this new knowledge? The purpose is not add another aphorism to your library of "enlightened talk" but rather to use this little thought to root out other subconscious assumptions and beliefs and allowing them to resolve themselves. How to judge if you are going the correct way? By being aware of your bodily reactions. As consciousness grows, your direct experience of life will necessarily become lighter and lighter. Internal blockages and campings - which are really the physical manifestations of your psychic attachments - resolve themselves and you begin to become more peaceful, empty, and free. In other words, liberated from bondage - by realizing that there has never been any bondage to begin with.

@winterknight Thank you for the answer.

@winterknight In your opinion, what is the best method for a achieving a quiet mind? What specific practice?

Perspective is everything.

@samedm9 My own experiences recently conform with this view quite a bit. It's as if the world is literally created in the mind, and projected on the screen of the Self, depending on what I want it to be.

@Manjushri Because otherwise you are not whole. You are not happy. You are not at peace. Even if you somehow convince yourself that you are, the fear of death associated with egoic life is still there in your unconscious mind, and it will only grow as you age. You feel it in your chest right where you sternum is.

@Pouya Welcome

Shunyamurti has got to be one of the most enlightenment fluent guru's today. I am always speechless at how to the point and clear his explanations are.