Joshe

Not everyone experiences a violation of those values as a personal crisis - Fi-doms do. INFP's are almost always indecisive because they makes decisions based on internal values, which can be slow, private, and nonlinear. They feel into it, they think into it, they intuit into it, and they wait to see how it all "feels". They often need time to feel out what’s right for them, which can look like hesitation or ambivalence. This is like one of their core traits, so if that's not you, you probably aren't INFP. Take this test and let us know what it says. https://personalityhacker.com/pages/take-your-personality-test I think this is one of the best ones out there. I ended up paying for their full assessment but they have a free one as well, but it might cost you your email address, not sure.

Fair enough. For me, it's about about recognizing where it offers clarity. Like any lens, it has its blind spots. I like SD for the collective and Jung's functions for the individual.

Haha, yeah, again, not possible. Each type has a dominant function. INFP's dom is Fi, which is a world apart from INTP's Ti. Every function is very distinct. You can hop in and out of functions but you have a few that are your go-to, and those go-to functions determine your type. For me, when I go out in public for like 4 hours to the mall or something, I get absolutely energetically wiped out. Why? It's because I'm being forced to leave my preferred functions. It's harder for me to operate outside them. Miguel is Fe (extraverted feeling) dominant, which is all about catering to external emotional dynamics. Fe is last in my stack. I don't give a shit about social harmony and if I try to, it feels alien to me (I want social harmony but I want others to maintain it 😆). So if you put me in an environment where Fe is strong, I will not be happy because I see such endeavors as a waste of my precious time. Same goes for everyone when they're forced to engage their shadow functions. If you're an INFP, you hate these things: Making quick decisions Too much sensory input or chaotic environments Cold, detached logical criticism (feels like personal attack) Pressure to act against your inner values If those don't have a problem with these, you're not INFP.

@Nemra Do you have any creative pursuits? That's a very common thing for INFP.

Well, yeah, I mean, it's not all of reality. MBTI isn’t meant to be a complete model of consciousness or a primary sense-making tool. But dismissing it as a useless tool that leads to delusion, especially when the model has only been evaluated from the absurd, 4-letter-based pop-culture lens is a mistake. The model literally defines and describes your modes of cognition with striking precision, and you reject it? I think you guys are thinking in terms of MBTI pop-culture and not understanding this whole model was built upon Carl Jung's 8 cognitive functions, which can either be oriented inwardly or outwardly, thus creating 16 functions. If you never learned about those functions, you're doing yourself a disservice. INTP's Dominant Function: 🧠 Introverted Thinking (Ti) – Key Characteristics Internal logic focus – prioritizes internal consistency and logical coherence over external rules System-builder mindset – loves building internal frameworks, models, or taxonomies Truth over efficiency – values what is logically correct, not necessarily what’s useful or practical Detaches from emotion – separates logic from personal feeling to maintain objectivity Highly analytical – breaks down ideas to their core components Skeptical and critical – naturally questions assumptions, especially broad generalizations Precision-driven – prefers clarity, specificity, and refined definitions Slow to speak, quick to refine – may take longer to reach conclusions but seeks intellectual purity Personal logic – doesn’t blindly accept external systems (like laws, traditions, or consensus) Private problem-solving – works things out internally, often without expressing the full process aloud Is this not accurate about you?

Yeah, Fi (internal/introverted feeling) is the dominant function in the INFP. It's the least dominant in someone like Aurum and Leo. In a sense, people with Fi first in their stack have a lot of spiritual potential because they can feel inwardly better than the other types, but I think they often have a hard time finding meaning and get depressed because they are always focused on their feelings. At least that was the case with my old friend.

@aurum - I added to it. See what you think about the addition.

@Nemra “Somewhat interested in the intellectual domain” → INFPs often enjoy abstract thinking and big ideas (especially philosophical, ethical, or human-centered topics), but their primary driver is Fi (Introverted Feeling), not logic or intellectual dominance. “Not overly attached to any idea” → INFPs are generally open-minded and non-dogmatic. They have strong internal values but don’t feel the need to impose those on others unless it's a deeply moral issue. “Rarely push your views forcefully” → Classic INFP. They often prefer to lead by quiet example or through meaningful one-on-one conversations rather than assertive or confrontational debate. Sound like you? I think that last part really sounds like you, unless I've read wrong.

Your manner. Somewhat Interested in the intellectual domain but not overly attached to any idea and rarely push your views forcefully. Calm, easy-going. I once had a good INFP friend who fit this bill. I'm no MBTI expert though!

The preferences do change. The model says we have 4 main preferences that we bounce from. The first preference is our core competency, the second our second, and so on. MBTI isn't a model of development. It's just explaining modes of cognition and how they operate and manifest alongside other modes. I'll try to explain. Look at your 7th function, the trickster: "For an INTP, Extraverted Sensing (Se) is the Trickster function — a chaotic, unreliable part of the stack that deals with real-time sensory data and immediate action. INTPs typically live in their heads, abstracting, analyzing, and projecting ideas. Se, on the other hand, demands presence in the physical world — awareness of the here and now, of concrete reality. When Se is triggered, it often shows up as clumsiness, overstimulation, or risky behavior — like suddenly making a reckless purchase, getting lost in sensory distractions, or reacting impulsively to external pressure. Se isn’t trusted or well-developed, so it tends to misfire when the INTP tries to rely on it. Instead of grounding them, it throws them off balance." And what about your Demon function? "For an INTP, Introverted Feeling (Fi) is the Demon function — the furthest from their conscious psyche. It asks them to make decisions based on deeply personal values rather than internal logic, which feels unnatural and destabilizing. When Fi shows up, it often leads to impulsive, emotionally charged decisions that clash with the INTP’s usual Ti-driven clarity — like quitting a job on a moral whim or cutting someone off without explanation. It doesn’t guide — it disrupts. Fi isn’t just underdeveloped; it’s a cognitive blind spot that, when triggered, can derail the INTP’s sense of internal coherence entirely." No matter what you do, these cognitive domains will never feel like home to you. You will never be as competent in them as someone who has these high in their stack. It's impossible because you'd have to leave your already existing cognitive domain, which you've been working on mastering for decades, to practice developing in domains you're not even interested in. Not the best articulation but hope that makes sense. Here's a more thorough explanation:: The TiNe’s functions are as follows: 1. Ti - internal Thinking TiNe's use Ti to make decisions based on logical analysis done over time in their heads. Ti is the reason they prize rationality and objectivity. It also drives their insatiable thirst for knowledge and learning. Because it is their strongest preference, the functions below are said to "serve" the Ti. This just means that the Ti way of doing things gets priority most of the time. 2. Ne - external iNtuition Ne is the main way TiNe’s take in information. It means they use their intuition to find patterns, underlying principles, and ideas, to construct theories and frameworks, and to form connections as they talk, write, or create. It can make them seem quite "rambley" at times as they can jump from topic to topic based on the connections they're making in the moment rather than following a more linear path of conversation. 3. Si - internal Sensing Si is the TiNe’s third function, and it allows them to store all the interesting facts and knowledge they gather in their brain in an organized way for future reference. Si also makes the Ti-led internal world fairly structured and detailed in its analysis, and can often lead to a very strong sense of internal stability which can come across as arrogance to others. While they can jump from topic to topic in conversation, internally their thought patterns are more linear. For TiNe's in particular, their Si drives them to have a high need for precise language, and they can often articulate themselves very well when they want to. As they get older, their thought processes get faster. After some time they will likely not need to consciously think through every step in a thought process unless they're taking on a very novel problem or task. 4. Fe - external Feeling Fe is the TiNe’s last function. As a last function, it is inherently not as strong as the other functions and the TiNe generally prefers to only use it where necessary, rather than using to make all their decisions. Fe is the TiNe’s humanitarian side. It causes them to want to use their intelligence and creative problem-solving to help others and fix the world in some way. Having Fe last means that TiNe’s often start out life being less aware of and equipped to deal with feelings than other types. Even though it's last, a healthy TiNe will learn to develop all of their functions over time so they can use them as needed. More here: https://www.typeinmind.com/tine --- You have Si, which allows you to store all the things you find in your head. I don't have that. I have to ping my intuition to bring those things back to the surface. If I tried to develop Si, it would be very difficult for me, but for others, it's only natural.

TBH, I wouldn't rely on the online tests. Some are accurate but it's hard for most people to answer objectively and to see themselves cleary. People often answer based on what they value or what they want to be like instead of how they actually are in reality. That said, you strike me somewhat as an INFP.

@Leo Gura here's your full stack. We typically only use the first 4. The others are so far removed from us, although not completely inaccessible, that the model doesn't even count them. And INTJ:

Doesn't work like that. The mind has limited bandwidth. It's impossible to embody all the functions (modes of cognition), which is precisely why different personalities exist. And if you decide you'd like to embody functions not natural to you, you'll experience pain and will be completely incompetent in that domain. My 4th function is Se (Extraverted Sensing), which relates to engaging directly with the physical world, the here and now,sensory details. Since this function is so far down in my stack, I suck at this. Absolutely suck but an ESTP who has Se as a dominant function, shines. I will never be able to gain the competence of Se the way it comes natural to the ESTP, and the ESTP would never be able to operate introverted intuition the way I can. If we suck at our 4th function, there are 4 others that are even worse! So, you can't just plug into whatever function you want.

If you try to understand MBTI by the 4 letters, you're missing the entire point and I can see why it appears like a shit model. The whole point is the 8 functions and what they manifest when combined. You could easily spend a month exploring your dominant function and still not fully grasp it.

Look it up man. It's a common misconception. You have to dive a little deeper into the MBTI world. It's a well-known misconception several experts discuss. Forget about the J. You can't isolate the functions. INTJ AND INTP are one letter off but worlds apart in terms of their cognition. One thing they share in common is being intellectually inclined and often socially awkward. lol, but that's about it.

The online tests are often flawed, so I wouldn't rely on those. You have to learn about the functions themselves. The actual cognitive functions behind the types describe how someone prefers to process information and make decisions, which can definitely evolve, but, as far as I can tell, only long the lines they started from. The underlying predispositions don't just up and change. My cognition is wired to seek underlying structure, long-range patterns, and decisive action. I can't turn that off and I most certainly can't start enjoying open-ended brainstorming or jumping between possibilities for the sake of exploration. There's no way I'm going to start enjoying bouncing between disconnected ideas or improvising in the moment just because I’ve “grown.” Development can sharpen what I already have, but I can't really change my cognition. Also, MBTI does acknowledge development, just not comprehensively. Like, you can have a healthy or unhealthy INTP. Two people with the same type can look very different depending on how developed their functions are, how much self-awareness they have, and how balanced their stack is. The model doesn’t ignore growth, but it doesn't map it in a linear way like SD.

This is actually a common misconception about INTJs. I'm 100% INTJ and can't stand schedules or routines. I wake up at a different time every day. INTJs really crave control and autonomy, not structure. For INTJs who do appear structured, they love the control the structure provides, not the structure itself. "The INTJ who wakes at a different time each day may not be living a life devoid of order; rather, they are likely prioritizing their internal state and long-term objectives over the superficiality of a fixed daily schedule."

Yeah, there's definitely some overlap, which I was just exploring. Lots of people on the personality type database think you're INTJ, but it doesn't make sense. I was confused because your latest blog post on intuition describes Ni rather than Ne. Since Ne is your second function, that means Ni is 7th in your stack, which hardly ever gets used, although it can because we can use all the functions, but it's not likely. We usually operate on the first 3-4 functions, but mostly the first 2. In your case, that's introverted thinking using extraverted intuition as a tool to branch out. An INTJ uses introverted intuition first, then uses extraverted thinking as a tool to validate the perceptions. I think I solved my confusion with this understanding: Highly-developed intuition requires massive exposure to complexity over time. Both types (introverted and extroverted intuition), when developed, eventually produce high-speed pattern recognition, but the process for Ne is bottom up whereas Ni is top down, so essentially, they start to look a lot alike the more Ne develops.

A good visual demo of how intuition works and the differences between internal and external intuition.

So, I knew Leo was an INTP before I joined this forum. He is textbook INTP. If you understand the MBTI functions, it's clear why people like Leo, and likely Aurum, operate the way they do. Their cognitive functions propel them toward open-ended, expansive exploration, and guess what - that's a bias! When someone like an INTJ comes along and says "here's the actual dominant factor worth considering for practical purposes, so you can omit all the minute factors, the INTP says "No no no. Too shallow." 😆 Ta daaa!! What’s often interpreted as Leo being dismissive or condescending is actually a natural expression of his INTP predisposition. the INTP typically explores reality more broadly than any other type. This is just what they do. And because others don't do it, they are biased against them. TBH, I too have a bias against people who are not like me. I think we all do to some extent. The specific combinations of Jung’s eight cognitive functions offer a far more precise and explanatory framework for understanding individual psychology than something like SD. "Understanding individuals through Spiral Dynamics is like diagnosing a single tree's health by studying satellite images of the forest — insightful from afar, but too zoomed out for real precision." I don't think you could truly know yourself if you don't understand the functions that you run on. I was living with Ni as my dominant function my whole life and knew it was uncommon and strange but didn't have a clue as to why or what it was all about. Upon discovering it, I got cold chills and watery eyes at how it was explaining me to fucking T. The OCEAN model is valuable for capturing broad tendencies but it can't tell you much about how a person actually processes information, makes decisions, or spends their internal mental energy. MBTI gets much closer to the architecture of thought. Also, notice this: when an INTP discovers SD, it’s easy for them to identify with Yellow. Not because they’ve developed into it, but because it mirrors how their mind already works. SD Yellow is a natural place for them to want to fit in. It feels like home to them. Just something to keep in mind when dealing with the INTP types and their fascination with Tier 2.

sometimes I just like to hear myself type

I was just watching Dexter and "ice princess" was a big deal in one of the episodes. Syncronicities on the rise again.

@ZenSwift I used Manus AI, which is a pretty sweet, little known research AI (generous free tier), ChatGPT deep research, and Claude's new deep research that was just released. You can have Claude do research and then tell it to put the data in a chart and it'll create React components and render them right in the browser. Something about Manus AI seems really high quality but I haven't used it a ton. It's good at generating a lot of reports. Also, you can watch it while it does it's thing, which is pretty damn cool. IDK how they offer so much for free though.

I think Musk is fucked.