bmcnicho

I’ve done about 30 trips over the past few years, and I’m thinking about taking a break for awhile. I feel like I have a solid general grasp of the major metaphysical concepts that Leo has spoken of publicly, and my personal life is going well right now. So I’m wondering what the benefit of additional trips would be? Of course it’s always possible to go deeper, because Reality is infinitely complex, but at least from the trip reports I’ve read, it seems like at a certain point it becomes the same insights but at higher intensity levels. I’ve seen the idea of “tripping 200+ times” thrown around a lot on the forum, and Leo has repeatedly encouraged people to not get complacent, but I don’t know what the intended purpose of this is. For example, I’ve already experienced insanity while tripping. What additional benefit comes from experiencing more insanity? And I’ve had multiple glimpses that Reality is Infinite. Of course it’s intrinsic to Infinity that Infinity always becomes more Infinite, but what added benefit is there to experiencing that over and over again? In several trips, I’ve reached the point where all possible concepts and finite ways of understanding break down completely. So what benefit is there to going more radical, more intense, and more twisted over and over again when you won’t really be able to understand it anyway? And even if you sort of can in the moment, it’s something that can’t fully be brought back with you. Some of the stranger reports I’ve read are so far removed from human reality, that we’re no longer dealing in anything that could have practical applications. Which I can respect strangeness for the sake of experiencing strangeness, a few of my recent trips entered that territory. There are things that can’t be spoken of or remembered, and I know my experiences have been mild compared to what’s possible, even though they contained elements that were inconceivably strange and reality breaking. But at a certain point, aren’t you just repeatedly destabilizing yourself for no reason, even if the insights are profound? I can respect the argument that it’s all for the sake of Truth, but at a certain point, even the distinction between truth and falsehood breaks down as well, so where does one go from there?

@Buck Edwards Yes, Hawaiian baby woodrose is incredibly powerful and underrated, and I owe a significant portion of my foundation to it. It’s been over a year since I last took it, because for me it’s mostly conceptual, and I decided to shift to primarily ayahuasca to experience more visionary elements.

@Leo Gura I like that analogy. Some of my recent trips have felt like if I was at a 4th grade level and then was shown page 357 of some random college textbook. Like I might incidentally be able to derive some meaning from it, but mostly it’s completely outside of what I have context for. But mysteries are endless, so if there’s more to be found, then I’ll likely be coming back to it before too long.

I see Trump’s victory as partially representing a collective rejection of Stage Green values, and I’ve been contemplating to what extent this could represent a long term trend of backsliding, or if this is a more narrow reaction to current conditions. If this is a long term trend, I find this concerning, as most of us would agree that the best path forward collectively is the embracing of Stage Green, so we can then move on to Tier 2. The problem I see is that Stage Green has largely failed to meaningfully deliver materially on its values, leading the general public to prefer Stage Orange values and below, which at least presents the aesthetics of success at a surface level and appeals to people’s low consciousness impulses. Also, people are commonly exposed to an underdeveloped and immature version of what Green could be, making them susceptible to anti-progressive propaganda. The modernist idea of continuous material and cultural progress being an automatic guarantee practically baked into the structure of reality seems to be significantly challenged, if not refuted, by post-modern conditions. I could still see in the long term the excesses of Stage Orange leading to such great material harm that a transition to Green becomes unavoidable, however I’m getting the sense that currently things might be moving in the opposite direction. I think one of the keys to making it through these times is that progressives need to face the harsh reality that a significant portion of the population genuinely prefers ignorance and selfishness over goodness and truth, and that that these people will need to be brought along as part of whatever project for the future we might envision. It is difficult for those who desire progress to contend with the possibility that broad scale material forces might be currently moving against that positive impulse. There is a sense of helplessness and despair in that. What I’m not so sure about is how to distinguish between short term versus long term trends. I’d like to hear if others have knowledge or perspectives on that.

I agree, this is an important point. I think this was one of the problems with the Bernie Sanders movement, despite the fact that I think many of the policies would’ve been good. He needed to market it as “this is what you’ll get for supporting me”, which is the the only way for a progressive movement to gain broad support in our current environment. But this lead to the “free stuff” smear, and the objection of “but I don’t want to pay more taxes”. Stage Green is really about giving up personal power for the greater good, but few are willing to accept that message.

I discovered that the Life Purpose Course works just as well to refine an existing purpose as it did to help me discover my purpose initially. I’ve been feeling less motivated recently and like I was hitting diminishing returns in life, so I decided to revisit the course. I was 21 when I first took it, and am 28 now, so I thought some things may have changed. I started by going through all the passes of the values assessment again and retaking the strengths assessment. My results were fundamentally the same, but with some important differences. I then redid some of the exercises and visualizations, choosing the ones that I thought would yield different results after several more years of life experience. At first, I was considering if I needed to switch to a completely different path in life, but now I see that my existing purpose is still in line with my core motivations, it just needs to take on a different form. This allowed me to rewrite my life purpose and me sheet using more clear language, which I think will help me get back on track. Another benefit to this is that it’s a good way to really see your progress. Going over my old notes from the course, I could see problems that I’ve overcome, and how my thinking has improved. For the exercises I redid, I was able to generate much higher quality answers than I could back then.

@Schizophonia Wouldn’t it be the opposite? Isn’t a hyper-masculine person more likely to make things overly serious when they don’t need to be? And most people here are interested in psychedelics primarily for spiritual and personal development reasons, rather than recreation. That’s not to say that the trickster and playful elements of psychedelics aren’t part of the insight also, and people can take things too seriously. But I think the original question, “is this visual or spiritual” was a reasonable one.

What I like about this podcast, is that these are two otherwise normal guys who both had intense experiences with 5-MeO DMT and other substances. They talk about how psychedelics opened them up to spiritual ideas and helped them manage various psychological problems. It’s cool to hear these ideas talked about by somewhat mainstream comedians rather than only spiritual masters and advanced psychonauts.

Imagine there is a vast sea of insects, extending outwardly beyond comprehension in all directions. You are one insect, and each of your psychological attributes and personal problems is but a leg joint or a segment of exoskeleton, being moved mechanically and unconsciously. Any external problem, no matter how seemingly important, is but another singular insect or a small cluster of insects working together in this vast sea. Now imagine this inconceivably vast sea is all contained within the stomach of merely another singular insect which is the world. This insect exists within yet another vast sea of insects which contains infinite worlds. Your spectrum of possible experiences is yet another such sea of insects, with each mystical state, or incomplete awakening, no matter how significant, being merely a singular insect which is unable to fully understand the others. Yet despite your smallness, every action, thought, feeling or insight you have sends ripples across the entire sea, with each individual insect, no matter how infinitesimal, impacting every other in an infinite recursion of inconceivable computational complexity. An infinity of infinities, an eternity of eternities, an infinity of eternities, and an eternity of infinities. An unstoppable explosion of boundless wonders and terrors, infinite chaos, miraculously bound together by an Infinite Order which unites all with itself, and yet still allows infinite strands of chaos to escape from it, only to be caught and escape again in an endless cycle, a process unfolding over infinite time, which all occurs in a singular perfect moment. And this Ultimate Reality has such unending and Perfect Love for all of its components, that it sacrifices all of itself, and drops down into something so infinitesimal, that it seems finite. It forgets completely all of Itself and becomes fully you in this moment, offering you a the opportunity to reawaken to Itself once again. And this entire description is but the tiniest most minuscule sliver, of the actual Infinite.

I just had my deepest trip ever on these seeds. I think they have as much potential as any other substance. There are physical side effects though, so they’re not for everyone, but they’re completely legal and easy to order online. This is my 5th experience with LSA. I had previously worked my way up to 12 seeds, but this time I only took 7 and it was way stronger than 12. I guess the potency of each individual seed can vary a lot. I took a 5 mg THC sativa edible with it, which is also psychedelic for me. The effects started at around 5 pm. I was hiking in the forest, and felt a sense of oneness with everything around me. I was absolutely flooded with insights about how to better express love in my daily life. I had received similar insights in previous trips, but not integrated them well. This time though, it felt like I really got the message. Then, I laid down in a field and stared at the sky. Usually the visuals on LSA are pretty subtle, but this time they were much stronger, with things looking a bit like they do on a moderate dose of mushrooms. I then dropped down into a neighborhood, a straight road would take me back home, but it was a place I had not been in a long time, so it felt cool and unfamiliar. LSA can have pretty strong time dilation, so it felt like I was walking for a very long time. About 4 hours in, after I had been home for awhile, things started to take a darker turn. I was confronted with levels of existential confusion and complexity greater than I had experienced on other substances before. I saw that my unresolved emotions and lies that I’ve been telling myself were blocking me from breaking through completely. LSA can be kind of like a truth serum that tries to break down psychological defense mechanisms. I wasn’t yet ready to let go completely, so I encountered lots of emotional resistance. About 5 hours in, I started dwelling on the possibility that me and all of reality would someday start exploding forever and never stop exploding. And that since this explosion is still a finite form, it itself would need to explode into Infinity/Nothingness. And any form it could take would still not be the Absolute, so it would need to continue exploding in a never-ending, recursive, unresolvable paradox. This may have just been my mind trying to conceptualize something that’s impossible to conceptualize. Or maybe it was a paranoid delusion, I don’t know. My takeaway was that at least for awhile I should be careful not to dose too high. Maybe I am destined to awaken someday, but it is not yet that time. About 6 hours in, I was able to calm myself down a bit and resume productive contemplation. I’m autistic, so I was trying to understand better how my mind works compared to other people. I became more self aware that I’m still mentally off in certain ways despite being outwardly functional and well adjusted. Things started to wind down and I fell asleep about 2 hours later at 1 am, although I woke up briefly at 3 am and was still tripping. In the future I’ll start a bit earlier in the day. My main takeaways are first: I DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING Reality is so much more vast, complex, and paradoxical than I could have imagined. All human knowledge is contextual, metaphorical, reductive, and imaginary. The second takeaway is that we exist in this human form to master human life and everything that exists here. I believe that this life is some kind of “training ground” for whatever lies beyond in the greater universe. Infinity can unfold in structured, ordered forms or in chaotic, incomprehensible ones. I think that somehow mastering your mind and human life here makes you better equipped to handle these things. So that things can be stepwise and integrated versus an emotionally painful flood.

I just started reading this book, and I can already tell that it is the highest quality spiritual book that I know of. For those who might not know, Aurobindo created Integral Yoga, a synthesis of many different yogic traditions to form a more complete whole. He is extremely advanced and represents all of the principles we’re pursuing here. He advocates the realization of infinite consciousness, which is not static, but part of a process of continuous evolution. His vision is the integration of spiritual practice with everyday life, and the continuing advancement of reality.

I know many people on this forum don’t think Stage Coral is worth talking about, and that’s a reasonable perspective. However, my recent experiences are similar to things I’ve heard from others over the past few years, and I don’t think it’s necessary to assume that Turquoise needs to be the highest level. I’ll be speaking from the perspective that spiral stage and spiritual attainment are separate metrics, despite the ways in which they’re related. So I define Stage Turquoise as being people in which Holism (as described in Leo’s 3 part series) comprises a significant component of their worldview, regardless of their level of spiritual experience. It’s my view at this time that Holism approaches the limits of what can be expressed in language, but it points to mystical experience, which is the way to progress further. Since these mystical experiences are both transpersonal and beyond models and frameworks, it makes sense that a model of ego development would naturally break down here. However, my ideas about Stage Coral are based instead on the continuing development of psychology independent of any mystical experience. The basic idea is that once one realizes they’re approaching the limits of conceptual understanding of the world at Turquoise, they begin to place less emphasis on this pursuit. Also, to the extent Turquoise has a “tribal” component, this form of connection with others can become less fulfilling over time, and one instead can tend towards solitude. These two factors cause a shift inward, continuing the alternating pattern of individual and collective stages. What I’ve sensed in myself over the past few months, is a gradual shift in focus from the desire for understanding and connection characteristic of Turquoise to a new desire for a kind of self-mastery. One might object that self-mastery is also present at previous stages, but I conceptualize each of the individualist stages as viewing self mastery in different ways: Beige: mastery of survival Red: mastery of strength and power Orange: mastery of success and achievement Yellow: mastery of knowledge and understanding In contrast, I view Coral as a sort of “pure” self-mastery, or mastery for the sake of mastery, something previewed by previous stages but not fully actualized. How it’s manifested for me so far is a desire for psychological purification, not for the purposes of understanding or achieving something, but simply to become a better being. I’ve found myself wondering what I would be motivated towards independent of outside influences or obligations. I’m beginning to view personality as a series of psychological fragments unconsciously accumulated from various external sources. I think it’s desirable to sort these out such that they form a coherent structure or inner ecology such that it can acquire a degree of partial independence. A component of this is that aspects of the “material” world are becoming less interesting, and I’m viewing relationships with others as being worth less of my focus. I’m at the beginning of this process, so I don’t know how it will progress in the future, but I imagine that the initial feeling of apathy and emptiness I feel now could be recontextualized as a positive development in the future. This inward focus might make Coral a Tier 2 Red, following the pattern of Yellow and Turquoise having similarities to Beige and Purple. (Although paradoxically, a Stage Coral person might not wish to describe their own inner state in terms of someone else’s conceptual model.) I noticed a shift in Leo’s content around early 2019 that may have represented this Turquoise to Coral transition. I say this not to speculate, but because I view it as a good illustration of what I’m describing. I noticed his tone became more serious (which I view as a good thing) and his teachings deepened, becoming less similar to traditional non-dualism and being even more so based in his own contemplation and direct experience. Though I’m not the first to speculate on this, it’s important to acknowledge that Leo never said anything about Coral in relationship to himself. If such a shift did occur, it could have of course happened far earlier before being reflected in public videos. Or he could very well view this characterization as inaccurate, unhelpful, or not worth potentially confusing people over. I’m curious to hear what others think of this.

@felixk_priv This only happened a couple weeks ago, so it’s yet to be seen what the long term effects are going to be. She has said that these other lives feel very distant now. It’s seems like she’s forgotten most of the details, but still remembers the major life events. I think this is the sort of thing where you snap back to your regular life fairly quickly, although she does happen to be an odd individual who often seems unphased by things, so it’s hard to say. But yes, she did say that she feels old now. This is quite the radical thing to think about, all my trips have been tame by comparison.

@woohoo123 I’ve only tried it with harmine. Like @What Am I said, harmaline is sedating, while harmine is slightly stimulating. For that reason, most people prefer harmine. As for THH (tetrahydroharmine), from what I’ve read it’s only a weak maoi that doesn’t contribute much to the total effects. It’s also a mild ssri (not enough so to be dangerous at the recommended dose). Someone on DMT Nexus said it provides a subtle improvement that really only those who are highly experienced would notice. And then full spectrum contains all 3 at the same proportions as found in Syrian rue. That would be the most similar to traditional ayahuasca.

Yes, my friend experienced a full lifetime as a Celtic Druid, and years as an Indian princess during less than an hour of a high dose mushroom trip. She experienced both of their deaths, they went to an afterlife where the machine elves celebrated the accomplishments of their lives, and then she returned to her body here. I haven’t dosed nearly as high, so I’ve only experienced other places as 30 second flashes that were more like vivid imagination than actually being there. There were two trips where it seemed like I experienced my own death and rebirth, but the time in between was blank and I don’t remember being anywhere else. This does seem like a phenomenon that happens sometimes, I’ve also read multiple reports of this, but I’m not sure if it’s something that can be easily replicated or if it only happens to certain individuals. I have no idea what to make of this without first hand experience, it’s possible it that these other lives could just be extremely vivid dreams, but it’s also possible that these experiences break conventional understandings of reality.

@woohoo123 There are also pure extracts available, that way you would remove uncertainty in dosing. There are 3 types of extracts that would work, with the following doses for full mao inhibition: Harmaline HCl: 100 mg Harmine HCl: 200 mg Or Full Spectrum: 150 mg

This is different from regular bacopa. This nootropic contains ebelin lactone, which is a positive allosteric modulator for the 5-HT-2A receptor, which is largely responsible for the effects of serotonergic psychedelics. I tried taking it with mushrooms, and the trip lasted 8 hours instead of the usual 5 hours. So the effects are similar to harmala alkaloids (maybe not quite as potent, it’s hard to say from only one experience), but due to a different chemical mechanism, there aren’t the same dietary restrictions as harmala, and the mild physical side effects I get from harmala were also absent. It also significantly increases the strength of lysergamides. I tried it with Hawaiian baby woodrose seeds (LSA), and the first half of the trip was much stronger than normal, although the total duration was unchanged. Cognance also about doubles the potency of cannabis, and has interesting effects when taken by itself, similar to a psychedelic microdose.

@ZenSwift Yes, that’s the right kind. I took 2 capsules, because they found that produced full effects, such that taking more would only make it last longer. Taking just 1 should have enough of an effect to be noticeable though.

I know that theoretically no matter how deep and crazy a trip gets, normal mental functioning is supposed to reassert itself when the chemical is no longer present. There may be lingering destabilization in some cases, but you’re supposed to resume existing as a human, because when used responsibly these substances are physically safe. But I’m wondering if it’s possible for your consciousness to be permanently severed from the regular causal processes of this world, such that you go somewhere else and never come back to this human life. Yesterday, I took 3 grams of golden teacher mushrooms with 200 mg of harmine hcl. Things started off similar to previous trips, but then at the peak I blacked out for about 5 minutes and it felt like being erased from existence. Waking up from that is extremely strange, because while my memory returned quickly, it seemed like a bunch of stories I had in my head that I had no connection to. There was a discontinuity from my past self, as if I had just emerged in that moment from the cosmic void. I’ve done about 20 trips so far, and it seems like my sensitivity increases a bit each time. Maybe the experience of death and rebirth is a key component of higher dose mushroom trips, but it’s very unsettling and terrifying for me. Maybe the key is to surrender completely, while I always want to maintain an aspect of stability. So is coming back guaranteed? Because it actually feels like ceasing to exist rather than simply memory loss, falling asleep, or the classic ego death where you feel at one with the landscape. Maybe I should lower my doses for awhile, and focus on practical insights, because I still have a lot more to learn.

@Razard86 For me it was on ayahuasca a few months ago. The meanings of all words became identical with their opposites, so language was no longer useful for understanding anything. I also was opened up to the fact that whatever it is that’s actually going on with this reality is so much larger than anything that can be conceptualized. It’s like my internal ability to imagine the possible scale of things was increased by over 100 times.

@SQAAD I don’t think the sedative aspect of certain psychedelics is necessary negative, putting aside personal preference. I’ve found that sedation can work in my favor by quieting down the parts of my mind that would resist, making me more open to insight. The sense of self, being an illusion, has to be actively perpetuated, so it might be essential to how these substances operate. But I agree that mushroom sedation, for example, is a lot easier to handle and feels pleasantly dreamlike while you still have energy to function. I haven’t tried any stimulating psychedelics yet, so I don’t know what my preference would be.

@SQAAD I’ve taken them 6 times so far, at doses between 6-12 seeds. Only one of the trips was partially negative. In general, I think this substance is largely overlooked, for me it’s been as powerful as anything else. It’s missing the visionary component of classic psychedelics, but it provides strong cognitive enhancement and has led me to intense spiritual realizations.

@SQAAD The seeds do contain some toxins, but nothing of particular concern unless you have certain medical conditions. Some people take them regularly for years and don’t seem to have any problems. The benefits vs potential harm need to be weighed, but I think they can be a useful tool. It’s not my main substance, I’ll probably cut down to like twice a year now, mainly due to the sheer cognitive intensity it can have.

@SQAAD LSA is pretty strongly sedating. It makes sense that taking it while sleep deprived would make it much more so. Feeling like you’re dying in a negative way (not in the spiritual awakening sense) is fairly common during bad trips. The idea that the plant was “trying to kill you” may have been psychologically present during that particular experience, but I wouldn’t assign too much weight to these ideas, as they can be self-fulfilling. Usually if you try again under better conditions and mindset, then the effects will be positive again, unless there’s something deeper psychologically going on.

Basically back in 2016 I was a strict rationalist materialist. Some personal difficulties made me more open to other perspectives, which was right around when I discovered Leo. Following along with his teachings, along with listening to intellectuals like Jordan Peterson and John Vervaeke made me realize that rationality could be transcended. But a couple years ago, I realized that even these higher quality ideas had their own limitations. That’s when I got started with psychedelics. I’ve done about 25 trips so far, and been opened up to a lot of radical things. The problem is, I don’t seem to be naturally inclined towards radical mysticism as some people here seem to be. I have a fairly strong sense of identity, and need for control, and usually encounter quite a bit of resistance while tripping. I guess my question is, can a naturally anti-spiritual person still benefit from this work? Maybe I’m just wanting this stuff to be an intellectual abstraction, without it impacting my actual life and reality too much.