Consilience

The technique instructions I prefer to follow are Shinzen's: 1. Sit down. 2. When you notice an intention to control your attention, drop that intention. 3. If you can't drop that intention to control your attention, it wasn't an intention - i.e. don't worry about it. What you'll come to notice after many many many hours of meditation practice is that being lost in thought has super subtle layers of intentionality baked into it. At first, yeah it feels like being lost in thought is something we should allow because we're doing nothing. But actually at unconscious levels of mind, being lost in thought in an intention the mind is choosing to carry out. Please note, YOU are not choosing this anymore than you choose any of your intentions to spontaneously arise. The mind is choosing. Yet this can create an issue, you might not think "oh I shouldn't be lost in thought if being lost in thought is an intention to control attention!" However, having the intention to not be lost in thought is also an intention to control your attention. The tricky of this practice is to go on full auto-pilot. The trick is to let the mind start to automatically notice intentions on its own and drop those on its own. Thoughts appearing in and of themselves are not an issue; you will find that many thoughts appear during Do Nothing practice. But just because thoughts appear, this does not mean thoughts have to have the stickiness of dragging into thought loops we're normally accustomed to during meditation. When we get pulled into thoughts, it's because a certain percentage of our mind (a higher percentage than the rest of the mind) wants to be thinking about whatever we're thinking about. When we notice that intentionality of the mind that wants to be lost in thinking, drop that and return to doing nothing. This doesn't mean thoughts or any aspect of our perceptive experience changes. It means the context of our holding of perceptive experience changes, but this changing of context is an automatic happening, reality cultivating mindfulness on its own. Overall, it takes practice to determine what is and is not an intention and whether you're actually intending to be lost in thought, or whether the lost in thought is a genuine act of automatic happening. It's actually both lol. The key is just sit down and experiment. You'll start to find a groove. In many ways, it feels like the Do Nothing technique is where all meditation practice ultimately leads. The dropping of the "meditator" and a surrender into the flow of reality moment by moment. It seems that regardless of what technique one is choosing, it is just a variation of the Do Nothing technique, at the highest level. So why not just cut the bullshit and sit down, do nothing? Well there are good reasons for that too but that's beyond the scope of this post.

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@Leo Gura your video was extremely well put together. Thank you for such an honest, nuanced, and deep discussion on this topic.

Yep I was thinking it was Brendan and Peter as well. When I was doing their workshops, one of the participants literally went crazy. They had a mental breakdown, become totally unhinged from consensus reality and had to end up leaving the workshop prematurely. Ralston ended up telling the group that this wasn't the first time something like this has happened, but that in every case he's witnessed the person always had some sort of predisposition to mental health issues. And to Brendan's credit, he handled the situation very well and managed to get the workshop back on track, and get the group refocused.

One of my fundamental, perceived, disagreements is your dismissal of manual practices like meditation. Not that you dismiss them per-say, but that you significantly down play their effectiveness due to a personal lack of success and label the people who have serious success with them as “spiritually gifted.” Yet I do not believe that should warrant me leaving the forum or to stop watching your videos just because I perceive meditation differently than you. In my view, the healthiest reaction would be for you to be open to the possibility that meditation, for example, is much more widely effective than the “spiritual genetics” argument claims and for me to be open to the possibility that most people will never have any hope of grounding high levels of God realization while sober. Id appreciate the opportunity to share my views on this in the future though without being labeled as a contrarian and asked to leave. Ive been working on a series of posts which may fall into the categorization of contradicting your teachings. Not in the ultimate nature of truth, but in the accessibility of truth regarding states of consciousness. Where does the line get drawn with too much contradiction? Having a community providing some level of criticism is healthy not only for you personally, but for the overall health of Actualized.org

What happened here speaks to the depth of these teachings. I believe this is why someone like Peter Ralston considers himself a "facilitator" (specifically not a teacher) and is incredibly cheeky, and at times, totally ambiguous with his communications about the deepest truths. This is why someone like Shinzen Young is so strict about teaching about mindfulness and not the philosophical implications of what the practice reveals. I believe this is why Gurus, Zen masters, etc., have a reputation of intentionally holding back how much they're willing to share with their students. If the student is not ready the results of repeatedly hearing these types of teachings can be disastrous. Yet on the other hand, even if someone where not psychologically ready to hear, "life is a dream, you are God, you were never born, you'll never die, your entire self and life is imagination, etc." I do not think the results would be suicide or self harm. At worst, someone may be plunged into an existential depression and at best, it could be the shell shock they needed to hear to begin their spiritual journey. For those with genuine mental illness, it doesn't really matter what the trigger is. It could be radical non-dual teachings, or it could be utterly self-derived delusional thinking. I do think there is inherent risk with the way Actualized.org has so successfully marketed itself across the internet, and the unintentional consequences that could result from these utterly radical ideas becoming so mainstream. However, I think there is a deeper risk with these teachings not becoming mainstream. Humanity is at an inflection point with our level of technological power; we are so severely lacking in a mature, compassionate, wise level of self-understanding. While these teachings may be utterly radical, and anti-thetical to the modern world's way of thinking, and therefore poses a certain level of risk, they are honest and authentic to one's direct experience of who and what they are. This type of radical self honesty is what the world is going to need if we are going to effectively face the growing number of existential threats on the horizon (increases in extreme weather events, rising sea levels, pollution of the oceans, world wide mass extinction, destruction of the rain forests, artificial intelligence, job loss as a result of artificial intelligence, gene editing, 3d printing, surveillance capitalism, virtual reality...) In essence, it seems that what Actualized.org has done with advanced spiritual teachings may not be ideal for the individual in every case, but given the need of these models and ideas for the collective development of the world, it seems the collective impact of Leo's work outweigh's the inherent risk for any given individual. That's my view. As is explicitly specified in the forum guidelines, this work is not for those with mental illness. Sometimes mental illness does not present itself as depression, but can at times present itself as delusional thoughts and feelings of connection and bliss. There are many flavors and forms of mental illness. It would be unreasonable to expect that moderators or Leo to have the capacity to monitor for this type of stuff. We are a community that exchanges ideas and communications, not a professional mental health service. Of course if the signs present themselves it is paramount that we take the necessary steps to help the individual. I think this applies for all of us, not simply mods. But again, mental health services is not the function, nor was ever the intention, of this forum. It was truly a tragedy with what happened with SoonHie. It's affected me more deeply than I thought it would. I have no words for his family and loved ones other than I'm sorry for what has happened, and I'm sorry you have to continue without him. There are no words that can fill that void. May his soul rest easy and may you all feel and heal deeply. With love.

@Ora I've never used 5-MeO. Still setting my foundation with weaker psychedelics. But from what I've heard across pretty much everyone is 5-MeO shoots people straight into God through psychological death. I don't think much mind activity would be available at higher 5-MeO doses. I've talked one on one with an advanced meditation teacher (50+ years, serious monastic training) who's tried 5-MeO and he said yeah it was pretty much just like a really deep meditation state and was "very impressed." He said it was like having a near death experience on demand. LSD and mushrooms seem more appropriate for gaining insights into the relative domains of life. 5-MeO is just sling shotting you into the absolute. Although actually one of my most profound LSD trips WAS such a sling shot... I literally lost the ability to think, or conceptualize in any way shape or form haha. So in regards to: That seems to be my impression as well. I'd be interested to hear other's experiences who have done a lot of work with 5MeO.

Your direct experience would tell you that taking on the belief that the Earth is flat is a belief you've created out of a perceptive experience and therefore, like all beliefs, is false and true at some level. Yet you must use your direct experience to come to this discernment. The problem with people believing in their own bullshit is that they've actually not dug deeply enough into their direct experience. I.e. the problem isn't direct experience, it's a misunderstanding of the nature of direct experience.

Direct experience is literally all you have. It is literally the ONLY reliable quality of your reality.

I've uncovered many by going into the trip with the intent to let whatever happens, happen. Often times with mushrooms specifically I've found it's useless trying to have an intention. They show me what they want to show me. And much of what they've shown has involved processing trauma. To access these wounds, I usually listen to emotionally provocative music. Yeah it's a really tricky, subtle topic with discussing the relationship between meditation and psychedelics... Because the integration into one's sober state is happening at an incredibly subtle level. A level well below the normal veil of awareness. Meaning, it's happening in parts of the mind we don't typically have access to while sober, bopping around living life. What I can say though is that as one develops a high level of mindfulness (concentration is an aspect of mindfulness) one starts to have an increasingly fluid, spacious day to day experience. Psychedelics actually induce a high level of mindfulness - they drag the attention into the present moment, sometimes so deeply the ego-mind no longer has any ground to stand on (the ego requires the illusion of time to maintain itself) and this can create openings into God, Unity, No-self, Emptiness, Love, etc. We can begin to recognize that our trips are actually showing us, in a sense, what it would be like to be a highly developed meditator. Now this isn't a perfect comparison by any means. There are certain mental qualities only a sober mind could pull off, and there are certain mental qualities only a tripping mind could pull off... But generally this is the principle. More Mindfulness = More God Consciousness. Please know this is a pitiful overview and the best way you'll discover the relationships between meditation and psychedelics is through personal direct experimentation. I would explore other forms of meditation besides simply breath concentration, although that's great too! The types I work with are: 1. Breath awareness (what you're doing already essentially) 2. Insight meditation (Shinzen Young's See Hear Feel is a good place to start) 3. Loving Kindness 4. Do Nothing 5. Self Inquriy I've found that the synergy between building proficiency with different meditation techniques to be very powerful at integrating psychedelics. Don't just stick with one, train, explore, play with multiple techniques and trust your intuition to guide you with what is best or most appropriate. Just by having a solid daily meditation practice you are already passively integrating your prior psychedelic experiences.

Shocked to hear this happened. Utterly shocked. Wherever his light is going, has gone, and is, May SoonHei be free from suffering. May SoonHei be free from ill will. May SoonHei be filled with loving kindness. May SoonHei be truly happy. And to his family and those who loved him, May SoonHei's loved ones be free from suffering. May SoonHei's loved ones be free from ill will. May SoonHei's loved ones be filled with loving kindness. May SoonHei's loved ones be trully happy. All we can do as a community is embody these teachings in our actions, in the ways we show up for ourselves, for our loved ones, for each other, and for the world. All we can do is hold space for this tragedy and understand that it is exactly as it is and could only be exactly as it is. SoonHei's decision was his own. And as fucked up as it was from one point of view, there is still the possibility for light from those who have been hurt most deeply. May that light shine.

If the whole of your spiritual work is using psychedelics, then yes they are temporary states and nothing more. However, if you have a grounded, rigorous spiritual practice such as contemplation/meditation 1+ hours per day, these experiences slowly start to soak in at extremely subtle levels of your mind and even body. Sometimes not so subtle. For example, I've done enormous amounts of healing work using psilocybin mushrooms. If I had the position that all of those mushroom trips were just useless temporary states, I would be missing the fact that those experiences helped open my mind up to many, MANY, hidden layers of trauma, attachment, and other unconscious aspects of my mind and further, helped facilitate a space wherein I was able to integrate and heal from these different unconscious wounds. So while it's true those states are long gone, their effects are actually what is generating my present moment experience. The healing work is undeniable. More generally speaking, repeatedly accessing these higher states on psychedelics can be thought of as planting seeds. For sure the state will come and go, but as we meditate, we can start to become sensitive to the fact that these experiences do leave energetic traces deep within our being. These traces, or "seeds", can then later be accessed in their own way through the process of manual practice. We can think of manual practices as providing the nutrients, the sunlight, and the water for the blossoming of these powerful experiences into our every day, lived experience. This is not to say that we will be tripping balls 24/7 in our grounded, sober state of consciousness. Yet we will begin to see how these 'higher frequency' feelings of bliss, love, peace, joy, gratitude, kindness, expansiveness are increasingly available while sober. Merely by accessing them at deep levels allows us to more easily access them while sober, yet this takes genuine work (i.e. meditation practice) to access. On the other hand, we will also begin to find the underlying unity between profound mystical states, and the mundane sober state such that we no longer need to be tripping balls to feel a deep oneness, a deep unity with all things. We realize this moment is none other than a complete, perfect expression in and of itself, needing nothing else. That perfection we find with all things while blasted off on a trip begins to ground itself across any and all states through the systematic training provided by manual practices like meditation. The trap of never using psychedelics is that we may very easily start to form blind spots within our own minds, with our spiritual practices, self-deception can run more rampant and we may begin to bullshit ourselves with how "spiritually developed" we think we are. The trap of misusing psychedelics is that we get caught on a hamster wheel of always feeling like we need to introduce an exogenic substance to the body in order to deeply understand and experience the unity of all things, accessing higher frequency states/God. The most holistic approach would be to keep using these substances with deep reverence, appreciation, curiosity, and humility while also grounding their use through manual practices like meditation. Eventually one comes to see the distinction between tripping and not tripping is imaginary, and therefore all one needs to do is see clearly into experience to see the truth across any and all states. As one deepens their meditation practice, the psychedelic experience begins to deepen as well. As one deepens in their psychedelic experiences, one's meditation practice will deepen as well. They are absurdly synergistic when both are practiced with diligence and intelligence.

I would argue Shinzen Young does have a pretty powerful degree of God Realization. He routinely talks about Emptiness and Love and God being one in the same. You have to read between the lines with his talks, but the understanding is there. Furthermore, I would argue his mind is much more integrated and in resonance with God Realization than Leo's because of all of his meditative work. Shinzen can sit and easily do a 4 hour SDS sit because of how deeply he understands reality, the nature of experience which is none other than God. There is much, MUCH, more to God than peak experiences. There is something to be learned through deep, silent, still, long, manual practice.

This is true. I guess I'm granting more authority to Leo when it comes to the overall "collective ego" of Actualized.org. From what I've heard in his videos and read online, he seems a bit too dismissive of manual practices like meditation or self inquiry. I've also seen a lot of members quickly recommend psychedelics and dismiss manual practice. Perhaps I'm incorrect though.

The I thought is made up at very subtle levels too. So even when one uncovers one layer of the I thought, there are still unconscious emotional perception knots still actively identifying and holding on. Keep inspecting, keep dissecting, keep feeling, keep untangling, keep releasing

@Being Frank Yang Thank you for sharing all of this to the forum. It's really nice hearing from someone who takes meditation seriously. It seems to be the biggest blind spot on Actualized.org. The dismissal of manual practice in favor of psychedelic exploration for awakening. Yet there is so so so much territory to cover using meditation. People don't realize just how profound it all becomes once one enters into the momentary awareness of the simultaneous arising and passing of sensate experience, moment by moment. When one can literally feel the expansion and contraction of reality, one's natural state begins become psychedelic, and actually even beyond psychedelic because the underlying nature of all witnessed experience begins to be penetrated. Hope you stick around these parts of the internet brah.

It seems like a lot of people on here conceptualize the whole Solipsism thing as the little self being alone in the Universe. Nope. Absolute Solipsism is totally one, whole, complete, perfect, and interconnected with all. It is the most beautiful possibility. You're so radically alone, you are literally one with all. The little ego thinking it's alone in the Universe would be horrifying to the little ego. But there is no little ego to be alone. There is only wholeness.

@Gneh Onebar Here ya go: https://dharmaseed.org/retreats/4496/?page=1

Same insight from mama mushroom lol. It actually takes less work than you’d think. If you’re interested in accessing these kinds of deep, blissful absorption states during meditation, there’s a phenomenal talk on Dharma Seed by Rob Burbea about the Jhanas. Combine this with the stages 1-6 practices from The Mind Illuminated (which are all more or less the same technique, just slightly different focus ranges) and you’ll be accessing drug like states from meditation with ease.

"The great way isn't difficult for those who are unattached to their preferences. Let go of longing and aversion, and everything will be perfectly clear. When you cling to a hairbreadth of distinction, heaven and earth are set apart. If you want to realize the truth, don't be for or against. The struggle between good and evil is the primal disease of the mind. Not grasping the deeper meaning, you just trouble your minds serenity. As vast as infinite space, it is perfect and lacks nothing. But because you select and reject, you can't perceive its true nature. Don't get entangled in the world; don't lose yourself in emptiness. Be at peace in the oneness of things, and all errors will disappear by themselves. If you don't live the Tao, you fall into assertion or denial. Asserting that the world is real, you are blind to its deeper reality; denying that the world is real, you are blind to the selflessness of all things. The more you think about these matters, the farther you are from the truth. Step aside from all thinking, and there is nowhere you can't go. Returning to the root, you find the meaning; chasing appearances, you lose there source. At the moment of profound insight, you transcend both appearance and emptiness. Don't keep searching for the truth; just let go of your opinions. For the mind in harmony with the Tao, all selfishness disappears. With not even a trace of self-doubt, you can trust the universe completely. All at once you are free, with nothing left to hold on to. All is empty, brilliant, perfect in its own being. In the world of things as they are, there is no self, no non self. If you want to describe its essence, the best you can say is "Not-two." In this "Not-two" nothing is separate, and nothing in the world is excluded. The enlightened of all times and places have entered into this truth. In it there is no gain or loss; one instant is ten thousand years. There is no here, no there; infinity is right before your eyes. The tiny is as large as the vast when objective boundaries have vanished; the vast is as small as the tiny when you don't have external limits. Being is an aspect of non-being; non-being is no different from being. Until you understand this truth, you won't see anything clearly. One is all; all are one. When you realize this, what reason for holiness or wisdom? The mind of absolute trust is beyond all thought, all striving, is perfectly at peace, for in it there is no yesterday, no today, no tomorrow." - The Mind of Absolute Trust, Seng-ts'an

By intelligence I think we could define it as an infinite number of parts and wholes, an infinite field of distinctions, all seamlessly working together. Flawlessly working together. Both positions, labeling it as intelligent, or indescribable, are both "valid." Notice though, that the intelligence we typically attribute to the human mind is happening at a meta level with the structure of reality. Reality is enormously "intelligent" in that in every extendable direction, there are parts and wholes all inextricably interconnected, seamlessly functioning together without error, mistake, or imperfection. It is literally impossible to describe one facet of reality without considering the whole of reality. To describe any part at the highest level, we must consider the "that which it is not." The "that which it is not," however, is inextricably linked to that which we are describing, yet does not break or negate the distinction, nor the inextricability. Further, the "that which it is not" is not only inextricable from the point of view of the whole, but is in co-creation with the part we are considering similar to how the a computer screen necessarily creates communication exchange over the internet despite being NOT the communication. Notice the infinite chain of holism here though; the computer screen and communication is just the beginning of this infinite web of causality. Yes there is no reference for even considering the possibility that reality is "dumb." There is no reference point for something other than infinite intelligence which is why it is completely valid to just not say anything about it. Yet, when the ego mind is removed, and we are contemplating reality within a state of "non-dual awareness," so to speak, we will inevitably see the inseparability of all facets of reality, that "not-two" is precisely infinite intelligence. If intelligence where indeed infinite, there could only be what is as it is right now. What is, is right now what it is, precisely because if the source of it where anything other than infinitely intelligent, it would not be what it is in this moment. Therefore, because this moment is exactly as it is, it MUST be an expression of infinite intelligence. The "logic" here to explain infinite intelligence is entirely self referential, a strange-loop, and cannot be expressed using linear language. At some point, the mind must fully grasp the strange loop as itself, fully, and wholly. At some point, the mind will 'understand' that at every level, scale, position, distinction, there resides the echo of infinity, of every other part of reality. Yet seeing this is impossible with the ego mind, and further, it is impossible to gain from a meditative state of deep absorption, samadhi, cessation, satori. This understanding requires that the mind be functional, but functional in a way which transcends the limited programing modern society has drilled into our minds through our eduction system, social systems, government systems, and the larger contexts we collectively agree upon as "reality." Make no mistake though, with each breath we draw, we find the intelligence of life, reality, God, pulsing through the body and beyond. You will not find this stuff without a radically opened mind. You will not find this stuff without a radically curious mind. Even becoming conscious of yourself as God, or transcending suffering as an Arhat, does not guarantee one grasps this level of seeing. Infinite intelligence is a structural understanding of reality, not reality itself, yet it could be none other than reality itself. Tricky tricky.

Explain red to someone who's color blind. If you can't, you don't understand it well enough. In general this does apply, but not for everything. Perhaps not for the deepest truths. Perhaps this has less do to with one's understanding and more to do with the inherent limitations of language. In general though yes. Concision and simplicity about complex topics can be a sign of powerful understanding.

Frank calling consciousness impermanent is the Buddhist notion of consciousness. Awareness is impermanent, and awareness can replace Yang's definition of consciousness here if he's going by traditional Buddhist definitions. The consciousness that Leo is talking about, in Buddhist terms, is Nirvana. Peter Ralston also makes this same distinction between awareness and consciousness, although I only learned that from a workshop I attended awhile back. At the time, I had no idea how there could be a distinction between awareness and consciousness. In Buddhism, there's the Jhana of infinite consciousness, this is NOT Consciousness with a capital C. It is a (mis)translation pointing really to an absorption state of infinite awareness, awareness becoming infinitely aware of itself. This, however beautiful, is not God, or Consciousness. Awareness is impermanent. Every time you go to sleep you lose awareness. Pure, formless consciousness, or God, remains.

This. The “trying” to dissolve it is itself more I. The I will only dissolve if and only if it is seen that both a state of I and non-I are both equivalent. When the preference for one state over another fades away, when the underlying (un)reality of both are seen, then “one” knows “progress” is being made, precisely because the attempts at progress are seen through. Precisely because progress is itself seen through. Yet damn bro, try try try. You have absolutely no choice in the matter.

TMRL ?