Consilience

Some of us just like to talk... 100% though Really appreciate it and very happy the content resonates. I definitely am going after vibes... Still working on it haha. Super glad you got Zen jolt because yes! Zen, while a bit squirrelly at times, is a powerful fucking lineage. A lot of wisdom to integrate from Zen that is impossible to do in one lifetime. And obviously no dig at Leo, but yes this is what I wish he emphasized more. On one level, I see he understands it based on how he responds in the small moments he concedes on the forum. But the presentation in his actual videos and in many other posts is that psychedelics are the ultimate end all be all. I think this is a momentous trap, a much worse trap than "meditating for 40 years and not being God realized." If you're following Actualized.org, using psychedelics, this risk is nearly non-existent. The real risk is getting lazy and not understanding the wisdom of manual practices such as meditation. There's the high chance he's leading a not insignificant amount of his followers into delusion, not setting them up for what they ultimately are after, which is Enlightenment.

Glad it resonated Stay consistent, long term results = short term consistency. Trust that source pulling you to go within. Really appreciate this @Moksha! I love the description of cardinal lines, it does seem to be what's happened really unintentionally. Hoping we can start swinging back into a more holistic view as a community. "Maybe it is possible to realize the serenity of unity and the creativity of division, while appreciating the reality and the beauty of both." All the feelz dude... ?❤️ Thank you ? And yes it is the key!! I'm happy to hear it's a similar focus. It really does radically transform consciousness, in ways that are extremely difficult to articulate and are only understood through the deep embodiment of serious sadhana. Wishing you well on your own path ?

Hell yes man! Good luck and more importantly, have fun! First, thank you! My go to meditation practice recently has been the "do nothing" technique, just sitting down in a space of complete surrender, except if I notice "trying" to surrender, then I surrender that lol. This is after having done tons of work with normal shamatha and vipassana techniques like those outlined in The Mind Illuminated or for example, Seeing That Frees/Shinzen's See Hear Feel technique. Honestly, if contemplation is what resonates do that! I think the big piece is the silence and stillness of formal practice. If that practice is holding a question and trying to directly experience something's fundamental nature, great! In a sense, this is what we're doing with meditation, but it's not quite as direct. Since you're really into contemplation, I would HIGHLY recommend Zen Flesh, Zen Bones. It's a book of koans that you can use as meditation objects during a form sit, or just read and contemplate as you read. Other books, The Mind Illuminated, Seeing That Frees, Mastering the Core Teachings of The Buddha, Science of Enlightenment, The Book of Not Knowing, Pursuing Consciousness. If you embodied what's in all of these books, you'd be a full blow Buddha haha.

Thank you man. Not sure Id go as far as to say it’s like Trump chasing women ? But I see your point. Just to reiterate though, I have explored psychedelics more intensely than 99% of the population, and more intensely than the overwhelming majority of the population that’s explored psychedelics. So please understand Im not anti-psychedelic. What Im advocating is the appreciation and recognition of just how powerful meditation is when done without the conceptual baggage of “meditation is pitiful compared to the power of psychedelics. Ill never be God realized while meditating!” All of the recent rhetoric on the forum regarding meditation vs psychedelics primarily lead by Leo, I view as bullshit, essentially. But please know Im not against psychedelic exploration, in fact I believe it has played a pivotal role with my success with meditation. The difference between me and others on the forum, it seems, I reacted from the psychedelics with an increase in the intensity, respect and appreciation for just how deep this practice goes. That being said, ya dude Im groovin with ya in that Now ?

I know ? my practice is peanuts compared to the grandiosity of cosmic time scales. It’s also peanuts compared to real mystics out there, but doing my best. Love the contemplations ❤️

Thank you man. Btw your recent breakthrough mentioned in your other thread is amazing. I had no questions but silently (now not so silently) excited for you as the path continues to unfold

Really appreciate that. Yes I do agree so much time is wasted with mental masturbation. Actually, finding the time for 2 hours of formal practice is a lot easier than it may seem when we realize how much time is needlessly thrown away through distraction. As far as the quote, yes that is very true but it’s one of those quotes that can very easily be coopted by the ego, turned into a belief that living life as we are and formally meditating are equivalent. While this is actually true, essentially, it’s not something we’ll actually live as experience without a shitload of consistency, intensity, and experience with formal practice. What comes to mind for me is the 10 ox herding pictures, just how profound the depths of this path really go, diligent practice being necessary every step along the way until the very end. But also, I think this has to be balanced with the quote you bring up from Rupert. When both are held in simultaneous balance, magic. Thank you again brother.

@roopepa ???❤️ Thank you

Thank you man. That’s super inspiring to hear you took the pandemic as an opportunity to deep dive within… 3-6 hours is seriously hardcore??

And only a fool wouldn't walk to pathless path. Real results from meditation occur when it's seen that no one is meditating, meditation is occurring spontaneously, and all of life is meditation. Don't bullshit yourself into thinking there's nothing to do, there most certainly is. If you don't meditate you're fucked. If you do meditate, maybe you're fucked too, but at least you're living a RADICALLY happier life than most. And when you realize there was no one ever meditating, liberation. Which meditation focused on insight will deliver. Not sure where you're getting the idea that there are no enlightened beings from these traditional spiritual lineages such as Zen, Buddhism, Advaita, Sufism,... There are countless examples.

If what's being explored is not a quality of this very moment, as the actuality of this moment, it is not going meta enough if the goal is Enlightenment. End of story. If the goal is to explore the depths of consciousness, absolutely with you. But Enlightenment is too a process, but a process that is inclusive not exclusive. The work you describe with psychedelics feels incredibly exclusive.

The object that wants to keep exploring these never ending, infinite depths is the very thing preventing the clear seeing of reality while in any and all states. Edit: And it’s actually incorrect to refer to it as an object, it’s an activity that’s completely void of ‘real’ substance.

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Yes this is important ?? Although Id be lying if I said there havent been both sudden satori breakthroughs as well as the gradual “development” of enlightenment over time. The mindfuck is that it’s both simultaneously and neither at all ?

I think considering how deeply you’ve gone with psychedelics and contemplating the nature of reality, this is a complete non-issue. For you and the majority of this community. That’s the thing. At this point, undervaluing mediation or something like vipassana becomes a MUCH deeper trap. As you said, the hybrid approach is king.

It does though because many people on this forum treat meditation as though it’s child’s play and ultimately goes nowhere because of how much more powerful psychedelics supposedly are. 1) meditative states can be just as powerful 2) Im talking about transcending the entire fucking game altogether. That’s the path.

I was shocked how much more powerful 2 hours was compared to 1. Even 2 is probably not enough. The thing is though, after a certain threshold of meditative skill, the whole thing has an exponential growth curve with how it develops. Annual retreat minimum, 2+ hours of formal practice are most likely required to get what Im talking about in this post.

Thank you

I would say learning Shamatha meditation would be the go to approach. You’ll learn how to enjoy and appreciate the satisfaction being with this kind of meditation. Learning how to reliably access these states is a huge foundation for the spiritual path and generating/integrating mystical experiences. I always recommend the book The Mind Illuminated for this one. If you’ve just had a traumatizing trip, definitely spend some time meditating lightly again using a shamatha approach or whatever approach you feel called to do, being in nature can help reset your vibrational state, and if your anxious about all of this, realize the anxiety is something you’re actually creating and are free to let go of and replace with a new thought and feeling. This last bit is a little tricky as it implies agency, as though there is a self to replace thoughts and believe it or not that’s not what Im talking about. The other approach would be feeling into the anxiety so deeply it becomes a non-problem which is what happens when we apply a high level of mindfulness to the sensations. Hope this helps. ??

This! Yeah Actualized.org has such a high level of holism that many people miss if they’re attached to a single lineage or spiritual tradition. They become paradigm locked without even realizing it. In my own experience, omniscience is understood not through the human intellect but by consciousness itself, being conscious of itself. It’s like being aware of the totality of the potentiality of all possible forms of reality, all at once. It’s not something intellect in the tradition sense of the word can do, it’s like a metacognitive process that the human intellect actually gets in the way of.

This is a good question. My personal guess is that they haven’t explored psychedelics intensely enough, if at all. I mean we go HARD at psychedelics in this community, way beyond what is normal. And I believe it has immense benefit regarding metaphysical understanding. But Ive met people who have done vipassana/self inquiry for decades and have zero issues with God/Love. Ive also met individuals who have done a lot of psychedelics, “understand” that we are God and Love, but dont meditate. These people are incredibly unimpressive though and clearly lack a level of embodiment. Both seem like traps.

@Frenk @nistake @Cykaaaa @impulse9 @Matthew85 Thank you all for the support. Im happy it struck a chord ❤️??? I don’t use the Goenka technique no. Lately Ive been doing a lot of “do nothing,” just letting “reality meditate me” but Ill also use the See Hear Feel vipassana noting technique, self inquiry, shamatha/jhana work, or metta. Ill usually do 1.5 hours in the morning and then 30 minutes in the evening.

Thank you so much, that is quite the compliment. Im really happy it resonates. ❤️ And yes your message is spot on. Really appreciate the ‘rant’ ?

I do as well. I wish I knew how to enjoy weed more actually… the deeper I get into sober meditation, the less enjoyable all drugs have become. And especially the after effects once the high wears off.

But you're also still looking for deeper awakenings, higher God Realizations, the hamster wheel continues. I'm not even trying to be critical or cheeky here, but why don't you see the wisdom of seeking God-Realization as a quality of this present moment? This moment, AS IT IS, *IS* a perfect expression of God and God's Love. Do you disagree with this? This is where something like vipassana becomes deeply pragmatic for God-realization. Because the parts of the mind that are pretending like this moment, in all of its infinite delusions and unconsciousness, are not god is just egoic bullshit. Paradoxically, this unconsciousness is just as much IT as the deepest psychedelic awakening. And disagreeing with this "This moment, AS IT IS, *IS* a perfect expression of God and God's Love." is a recipe to never truly, fully, utterly be God-Realized.