Consilience

Regardless, it hasn’t integrated the pathless, position-less, absolute equilibrium, non-dual quality to this path. All of the stories about more and less advanced have to be let go of in order to truly harmonize with the raising of one’s consciousness.

@Yoremo Yeah I don't 'want to further confuse the conversation. The most important part of meditation is dedicating time for the silence, and stillness. I'd stick with @Nahm 's advice for now. As for your other questions, yes the book is geared towards enlightenment and yes enlightenment helps with your relative success. When you know what you honestly are (enlightenment), you effortlessly, naturally, and necessarily show up more up authentically in your life. A life of total authenticity is the good life, completely.

This. I wasn‘t meaning to insinuate you HAVE to always be switching. Ive had months or even years of only following one technique. But don’t let it become rigid or inflexible. If you’re new to meditation or feel like you should be having more significant results, Id recommend the book The Mind Illuminated. Really great book that teaches you how to have more of these profound, quasi mystical states from meditation on demand. Though that’s not the point of meditation long term, learning the steps needed to unify the mind with its intention to explore these altered states is extremely powerful. @Nahm ‘s list is good too.

Ultimately doesnt matter. What matters most is you’re consistently sitting and following your intuition. Id also recommend going on a meditation retreat asap of you’re wanting serious results.

It’s important to experiment with many techniques to a significant enough degree where you’re proficient with multiple. This will teach much more about the mind and awakening than using a single technique. So how do you choose? Just follow your intuition, the intuition that’s created when you’re familiar with many practices. Last night I sat for 45 minutes and cycled through 3 different techniques, one every 15 mins. Other times I may sit for 90 minutes using a single technique. Other times Ill just sit without a predetermined technique and adjust in real time based on what feels good. So many combinations and possibilities open up when we approach practice playfully and as an ongoing experiment and exploration.

Originally this was just a reply in another thread but thoughts kept flowing and it turned into something worthy of its own thread. Thoughts aren’t quite as organized as other threads, this one was more stream of consciousness but felt worth sharing nonetheless. Question from other thread: “Neo advaita could be bullshit so could Buddhism or any other religion. How can one know ultimately?” By experimentation. And understanding Buddhism without rigorous personal meditation is impossible, hence why most people misunderstand it as well as misunderstand meditation in general. Meditation as a formal spiritual practice does not necessarily imply seeking, as Neo Advaita always either explicitly or implicitly implies. There is enormous depth to this practice beyond stumbling into ultimate truth. There is an unveiling of the relative dynamics of self, world, another, death, life, the nature of existence, happiness, suffering, duality, creation, manifestation, relationship, communication - all of this is in addition to the possibility for direct consciousness or enlightenment, the seeing into the true nature of self and reality which is that there is only tightly bound aggregation of phenomena giving rise to a self and world, but there is nothing behind these appearances nor anything grounding their amalgamation as a solid ‘thing.’ Meditation, when done properly, allows one to literally see this self and world construction in real time. It’s no longer believed this is all a dream, we become directly lucid. The deep problem of Neo Advaita is that while the communications are generally spot in terms of their existential descriptions, it has a massive danger - the possibility of forming a belief in the no self. The belief life is a dream vs the direct experience. This belief vs. the direct experience is widely distinct, heart wrenchingly distinct. But because the belief is wrapped around such a solid intellectual understanding and even worse, because the belief is representing an accurate description of reality, the belief becomes that much more believable, ingraining itself even more subtlety into the unconscious mind. This, is ultimately a form of self identification, but one so subtle and sneaky, many never even see it, thinking they’ve discovered ultimate truth. Moreover, because this belief is so powerful, it does indeed provide comfort and a conditioned form of happiness, similar to the happiness a Christian would feel as a result of their religion. It’s a wicked form of devilry. Let’s take a step back, What does any being really want, ultimately? Happiness. Reality tends towards happiness even when those methods are wildly dysfunctional due to existential and psychological ignorance, regardless of whether it’s recognized there is no one seeking happiness or no reality at all. The intention is always a favorable manipulation of the present to best serve the self, which when taken to its pinnacle, is unconditional happiness and when at its lowest, the pettiest scrapping by of survival. No matter what one’s conceptual or direct consciousness, happiness and self serving manipulation is always the priority. These self serving manipulations will vary wildly depending on the quality of the being’s mind in relation to ultimate consciousness. One of the cornerstones of meditation’s utility - it grounds the being’s understanding. Similar to how an MMA match would ground a fighter’s martial understanding, meditation grounds one’s “level of consciousness” or more specifically, one’s understanding of what THIS really is and points towards. As long as suffering, resistance, psychological challenge is arising as a result of meditation, there are aspects of consciousness that have not realized what THIS is, directly. Please understand, this does not mean pain, emotional distress, gross psychological or physical challenges never arise during meditation, it means that one is actually, legitimately, authentically experiencing the true nature of these phenomena which eliminates the meta-resistance, ie suffering, of these phenomena. Whereas Neo Advaita implicitly invites you to believe in the nature of reality, meditation invites you to sit down and experience it. Utterly different approaches. So while on the one hand, ultimate reality is indeed always present, always available, a being’s consciousness of such reality is still conditionally based on present moment experiences. If the conditions were to change, the consciousness (or in the case of Neo Advaita, belief) would be gone. Hence why practice is so powerful, it is a slow permeation of this consciousness into all moments regardless of condition, whether mundane and taking a shit, or mystical non-dual union with God. Is the famous seeking trap a risk with meditation? Yes, 100%. But generally this is due to a misunderstanding of meditation, poor instructions, and not rigorous enough participation, persistence, and patience on the part of the meditator. Eventually it must be recognized that the activity of seeking has nothing to do with one’s consciousness of what is true. Seeking, not seeking, doesn’t matter - truth, awakening, and liberation are possibilities and simultaneous actualities. It’s as though there is a simultaneous expansion and contraction of the drop into the ocean and the ocean into the drop. As a result of practice, reality unravels itself like an unfolding eternal fractal, the fractal as itself is always present yet the traversing more deeply into the fractal is taking place in an endless loop. Things get really paradoxical, trans-rational, loopy, and on the surface, insane with hardcore meditation, and especially post-satori practice. At the end of the day, if 2 hours of silent stillness is creating problems, you can rest assured there is still much self fixation and identification, yet simultaneously no self or fixation at all. The choice - do we want to experience this liberation or pretend? Sit and you’ll find out.

I understand. What Im saying extremely subtle though - fearlessness does not exclude fear. Until you understand that, you’re not going to understand what is being pointed towards.

Because fear is just a formation of sensations, both the physical sensations and then the emotional sensations of interpreting the physical sensations and the cross multiplication that happens when these sensations are not seen deeply. The deeper truth is that even these sensations share the same nature as the ultimate Nirvana state that you speak of, nothing is excluded. What is true is already true regardless of whether one is in this ultimate state of awareness. You're idealizing Buddhahood, and turning a shadow out of terror. Buddha's Zen: Buddha said: "I consider the positions of kings and rulers as that of dust motes. I observe treasures of gold and gems as so many bricks and pebbles. I look upon the finest silken robes as tattered rags. I see myriad worlds of the universe as small seeds of fruit, and the greatest lake in India as a drop of oil on my foot. I perceive the teachings of the world to be the illusion of magicians. I discern the highest conception of emancipation as a golden brocade in a dream, and view the holy path of the illuminated ones as flowers appearing in one's eyes. I see meditation as a pillar of a mountain, Nirvana as a nightmare of daytime. I look upon the judgment of right and wrong as the serpentine dance of a dragon, and the rise and fall of beliefs as but traces left by the four seasons."

This is not some clever message. What you’re describing is a condition to box in the unconditional. >> Fear never arises. This is a nice belief, but impossible for the body mind complex unless there’s been an immense amount of psychological rewiring, but the rewiring is not necessary to recognize the illusory nature of fear. Can you get that? This is huge. The context that holds the sensations of fear is completely fearless. Recognize the context, and all sensations of fear will be seen to be fearless. You experience fear so deeply, so completely, you open to fear so fully, that the nature of fear is seen to share the same nature as all, and vanishes even in the moment of total terror. The terror’s nature shares the same existential nature as the mind incapable of even experiencing fear. Please reread that last sentence. Guy’s, everyone, start opening up to more paradox.

Not necessarily. Yes that could happen, but then that wouldn't be what this pointing out of fearlessness points towards, nor does this pointing out of the nature of self and fearlessness necessitate the spinning of a story of an I that is threatened getting to a place where the I is secure. True fearlessness has no problems experiencing fear. We can hold space for this actuality when communicating about this clear seeing into the nature of self such that there is no longer fear, the simultaneous seeing that there was never fear. Again, paradox.

Well for one, recognizing God‘s will can’t be misaligned with in the first place. In a more practical way, Bashar’s idea of following your highest joy in the best way you know how in a moment has always deeply resonated. But removing the duality of you could have ever been misaligned is a necessary first step.

Disagree wholeheartedly. If this was recognized by a self, then it would not be the insight that the self is not real. Which is the akin to the Neo Advaita trap of over intellectualizing this stuff. If you disagree, then it is due to a communication barrier and limitation of words. The recognition that the self is an illusion occurs to nothing, no one, yet occurs though simultaneously having always been - paradox.

Lol... Yes freedom. Always was, before, during, after any seeking, before, during, after any realization, and before, during, after any altered states. So why practice meditation? There are no definitive answers. Any rationalizations aren't it. Any reasons to stop are not the reasons it was stopped. And as others have mentioned, all of life is one giant meditation.

The recognition didn’t occur to an individual. It occurred as the substrate of what is real, reality as itself. This is what your message always misses, the recognition that this recognition can occur in and of itself for no one. There is no one home, only a spontaneous play of self activity. Who I am is no one. What I am is utterly wordless.

Agreed ??

There is something to be found. There are depths and degrees to this realization as well, while there is a simultaneous equilibrium across all states, stages, experiences, and moments of infinite being's expression. Again, paradox. Embracing this paradox is how one discovers true liberation. Denying it, not recognizing it, still samsara.

This simply isn’t my experience. What I define as Enlightenment is available now and was not available when I was younger before seeking yet was always the case due to the fact that it was true. There was a direct encounter with my true nature, the culmination of the seeking dissolving into and as my true nature. There is something the words “Absolute Truth” point towards. It’s literally a paradox, a cosmic paradox that won’t ever make sense to the linear human mind. Perhaps I got lucky. But once the recognition has occurred, all doubts disappear. Saying enlightenment isn’t real is like someone telling me color isn't real as I stare into a rainbow.

Thank you brother. And I hear you on the jesus part… it’s probably harder for me to hold space for this due to my conditioning growing up in such a hostile environment as a child, being judged and told I would go to hell by other kids because I wasn’t christian. But there is definitely that mystical side and the room for faith. So again, thank you for that pointing out.

And how much experience do you actually have of people in the west? Sounds like you’re parroting actualized.org dogma honestly. “those people probably ought to just take drugs or not bother” lmao duuuuude. The meditation circles Im apart of, people who have had wild success with meditation are not bipolar or schizophrenic. I am not these either and have had a lot of success. Go to some meditation retreats, hell do one yourself. You may find some. Or ya know, go take drugs. “Those who know do not speak. Those who speak do not know.” - Dao De Ching Guess I have a big mouth or don’t know

Thank you. Im glad it resonates

@Adamq8 Resonate with much of your post. Please understand the calling out of Christianity was not a calling out of it as a non-dual mystical tradition. I was referring to the dogmatic forms we see most commonly today. I never stated one was more important. I dont really draw a distinction between meditation and deep contemplation. Both are contemplative practices. True contemplation is just the other side of the coin of true meditation. Though not stated in op, Im with you. This, however, is not something the majority of Christians on the planet do. Because the ultimate nature of reality transcends whether Im in the andromeda galaxy or any other, it’s independent of the context of any and all experience or relative phenomena, hence it’s the nature of reality. And yes through meditation, or contemplation, accident. Doesnt really matter. The clear recognition beyond doubt is what matters. And the humility to see there is further to go. Im not claiming to be jesus. What does this have to do with the thread?

The belief in Jesus is the dynamic of placing conditions on the happiness you described in the first paragraph. After having grown up in TN surrounded by many fundamentalists, it’s crystal clear their happiness is based on conditioned experience, beliefs. So while yes the happiness in and of itself is never not true or pure, the context in which it’s held can be deeply conditioned. So while it’s true it can be helpful in a certain context as you described in the second paragraph, it’s still built off of a foundation of 1) belief rather than direct experience 2) attachment and the unconscious and sometimes conscious forms of suffering that arise when life challenges those attachments, and 3) dishonesty, which is misaligned with truth and therefore misaligned with love. Most do not see how deeply dishonest they are being as a result of their religion. The christians that are actually being honest and grounding their understanding from direct experience are mystics, not fundamentalists. The devilry is replacing an honest not knowing with beliefs and thinking this is equivalent. Dishonesty about one’s understanding ultimately what Im referring to as devilry. Of course this is relative, a pointer. The dogmatic insistence of believing in the thoughts is what Im referring to as devilry. If there was open-mindedness, honesty, inquiry, etc., this would be a different story. What Im suggesting is there is much, much, much more than simply letting go of surface level thinking. Yet it’s all one, goes nowhere and is truly, never attained. Hence this paradox I keep going on about.

The thread speaks for itself brother. So do my other posts. Im glad you’ve found happiness and peace in this life. Im glad Neo Advaita brings others peace and happiness. But that doesn’t mean it’s true Enlightement nor peace beyond conditioned circumstance. I write for those interested in an authentic consciousness of what is true.

@Gili Trawangan I got you https://youtu.be/4KXidr0z1RY

My opinion is that meditation needs to be practiced in an experimental, holistic way - learn multiple techniques from multiple masters and in a sense, follow your bliss. If that means jhana practice for a bit, do that, if that means switching to vipassana, do that, maybe shikantaza is what's resonating now, so go do that. The key is to developing enough skill to where we can reliably follow our intuition. It also seems that true momentum with meditation is impossible without dedicated retreat time, whether in a group or solo. I had a full blown, utterly profound Enlightenment experience using Shinzen Young's See Hear Feel vipassana technique on retreat so I am a bit biased towards vipassana. From what I can tell, alternating between a discriminatory practice like vipassana and integrative practice like do nothing all the while throwing in shamatha/jhana for when things get particularly heavy (dark night of the souls like) seem to be the most powerful. The key though is to practice with the clear understanding that what is true is always true, and no matter where we go, we are never moving towards or further away from this actuality. When the increases in consciousness from meditation are grounded in this actuality... This is meditation. At least, that's how I frame it. It's extremely difficult to even communicate or understand conceptually for myself. So yes, generally I'd recommend: - Deconstructive - Vipassana/Self-inquiry - Unifying - Do Nothing/Dzogchen - Enjoy wholesomely - Shamatha/jhana/loving kindness - Retreats at least once a year, if not more First two have provided more depth to consciousness for me though, as in are more non-dual. And sometimes the mind gets into such a state that the first 3 jhanas are really distracting compared to the bliss of resting as consciousness, directly. And anyways, I'm pretty sure you're beyond my level with meditation so what would be your advice regarding "proper meditation?" @BipolarGrowth