Mu_

are you guys dating or were? I get the sense there might be some female/male dynamics here. perhaps unspoken desires? I might be jumping to conclusions, but just thought I'd put it out there.

Your welcome

Hey all, Since joining this great forum, I've noticed a couple points of confusion about non-duality that I wanted to speak on that I hope can help reduce confusion and inner conflict I've seen in new seekers and open up old timers to some new expansions (this is just an offering because once certain states/understandings/transformations have been achieved its very normal, acceptable and understandable to enjoy the fruits of your inner work, because yes a lot of us went through hell to gain some ground, so don't take this a judgement). New Seekers A lot of New seekers see non-duality as a letting go of their ego/selfs, through dropping all desires, thoughts and emotions to become some awareness, that lets all thing rise and fall as they carry on with a simple life (and yes there may be times where this is the case for periods or is a healthy change for some, but is not the end goal/state, nor requirement). Others think they have to somehow get out of a feeling of individuality/separateness in order to achieve the life law of becoming and understanding Oneness/Non-dual/Inifinity (and no this is not a requirement/law of life or even non-dual understanding) Also some think they have to leave their job, family, friends (yes sometimes this may need to happen for periods/spurts/or all together, but its not a rule). A few members I've helped basically were fairly happy and going forward into their lives enjoying helping out others and bettering themselves in various way, but for what ever reason, some idea's they've read about and heard on non-duality, basically left them confused depressed and no longer interested in the fine life they had. Ok this may shock some people, but non-duality is not about changing your life. Why would that which has always been not be where its supposed to be. Why would that which is everything have gotten and created you wrong or not in the right place. And if your into science as your grounds of knowledge, how could scientific phenomenon that created everything do so incorrectly in creating the universe and you in it. And its fine if you don't understand that or believe it, its still the case (hell just having a radical leap of faith in this, without proof can yield unexpected dividends of happiness). God/Oneness/Infinity/Science is not imposing a law on you to have to discover this truth, its up to you as this to find out if you want to unwind this mystery till you see it. You/Life is very fine already going forward as life/individuality experiencing the wonders of being/form, not knowing its truest start/form. Its a wonderful thing to just be a "you" not thinking it is missing something, which ironically enough are often created in this spiritual search that leads you to believe that your doing something wrong or got life backwards and there are things you have to do to get better, discover the real truth of you and then be ok, and even in the scientific search of not feeling settled or ok until you discover and understand it all, having all the answers so you can feel finally safe or the most knowing one around. So if your just approaching non-duality or just trying to figure out life. First ask yourself what you really want. If the majority of your desire is to get a job and go to school so your can earn a living, then do that and commit to that fully. If your looking for some happiness improvement, then implement many of the things out there that can improve well being (meditation, working out, healthy eating, shadow work, yoga, treat others with more kindness, treat yourself with more kindness or look into why you don't do these things, art of some sort). If non of these things is what your yearning for then by all means, continue forward into non-duality, but be prepared to commit, be prepared like a warrior to persevere and struggle, be prepared like a child to laugh, forget, be distracted and a little all over the place, be prepared to not know whats going on, and be prepared to reach out for help. Old Seekers/Realizers Now I'm not gonna point any fingers, or call out individuals, there is no need, your fine the way you are, I really do hope your happy, and even helping others. Like I said this is just opportunity to grow like you already have. That said, the majority of people on here who have had awakenings and speak about non-duality really seem to get the awareness/vastness side of it all. I imagine a lot of you went through the believing yourself to be a something or other person individual thingy, who at one point saw themselves as a problem, inadequate, lacking something, believed that life was a mess and needed to find happiness some how and discovered some spiritual path/practice that brought great fruits (thank god for that). Now a lot of you at the vastness stage, are seeing all that is arising as thought/sensation and the only thing that is real is that which sees. And this is sooooo nice, and freeing from all those past pains these types of things brought you. But there is more. (WAIT, WAIT, before you say I know this, its oneness, changing, love, non-dual unknowable, infinity, all is just thought outside of knowing, just blah, blah, stop, stop, just be open and really ask yourself, am I full of ass with some of the things I understand? Am I just licking the ball sweat of illusion. Is there more? Don't be afraid to reopen and find out again). There really is a infinity/oneness stage/perspective with a experience of undividedness with inner and outer, and love that is beyond words. There's even a stage of nondual/life thing, that is not anything in particular and is always changing, so theres no thing to cling onto as oneself or experience to claim is the real (and a freedom that can come with this). Theres even the just an individual again stage that understands their true nature and is fine with living out any life, feeling the original individuality of self and other, being a separate felt entity traveling the world, with the tree's and birds, the animals the cars, and computers, science, film, planets, doctors helping people, where you can accept and enjoy these special things, knowing deep down these are all god/self, and that all things that arise and are confronted are god. Vastness may return and go, oneness experience may come and go, happiness and hate will come and go, connection with infinity and the unquestionable creator will come and go, but understanding prior to thought will remain..... And I'm sure theres more..... And again, as you probably better understand at this point, your free to be where you are..... Gratitude to this forum and all beings who ..... I guess everyone man, love to all. And thanks Leo for creating this hot spot!

While I'm a fan of luck and magic (atleast leaving it open as a possibility), I was not at all eluding to it. Totally put in consideration about "economic factors" (how much could this make, is there a market, how much capital will it take to get started, how long will I have to pursue this till I can expect a return and not back out before then, etc...etc...). I was pointing to two things. One, pointing to self limiting beliefs in regards to your endeavors in my last post. Like its not possible to run a 4 min mile, no one can scale a mountain without a rope, the limiting belief that one could become a healer, or a money maker through some endeavors, nonduality isn't real, god isn't real, magic isn't real, energetic distance healing isn't real. The other pointing is something more subtle to though, which maybe is the basis of your confusion. Many spiritual traditions call it seeing without ego or with buddha eyes, or seeing like a kid again. Its a open hearted, vulnerable, innocence, in your approach to something such as in your case maybe a business. It asks the same questions about how to do this venture effectively, asking the questions about what it needs to succeed, but with a softness and a acknowledgement that it doesn't have all the answers, not to get to caught up in unnecessary stress, accepts the possible failure, remembers to keep it fun...... Its present and able to adjust on the fly, willing to hear information from anyone and take it in and give a moment. It isn't brute forcing. I hope that points better to the "thingy" of my paragraph.

Thats the right way to look at it!

Ya really beautiful, I have a few tears in my eye. God/Universe is so interesting, stories like these are just rad and mysterious. But yes, you, messages, intuition, anger, fear, dogs, cats family, friends, the mysterious elements that allow for feelings and thoughts to occur, are all god, one and the same, yet separate and unique. Enjoy!

you may not be ready to hear this, but its always best to atleast say. Your it, the life thats already happening, with you, all the "not-spiritual people", crap in the world, parents, friends, current thoughts, past thoughts, future thoughts, is ALLL it. Its it, your it, were it. There is not one not it. If your still yearning for this understanding, maybe meditation will help, perhaps kriya yoga, seriously pray to god or anything out there that may help you understand (I'm serious there are beings out there that will help) and see what happens. But remember, even during this "search" the infinity of the universe is already you living this search out.... enjoy man.

Ya no reason you shouldn't go out and do things to help the environment, non-duality allows that. You can also work through your fear of security as well.

Can you accept both and more?

A great book I read said that there are three types of awakening. The slow and painful, with lots of highs and lows along the way. The middle ground challenging with steady progress and the relatively comes easy and enjoyable, with a letting go of the old that is just so glad to be let go of. I fell on the first one, really slow and painful. So no I wouldn't want to redo it. I'd rather stay with whats been understood. But would I not do it to begin with, no, I would do it, its worth it.

Within the spiritual circles theres a lot of words and beliefs thrown around that have a lot of attached meaning. Two of the biggest are be here now, and clear your mind or meditate so you can see whats really here. The first is based upon the notion that there is a objective reality that can be seen when something called mind stuff is seen through to see a something called a really here or reality (and there is a partial truth here, but one not normally interpreted in the correct way). This new belief idea generally with it creates a division in the seer/person/self that the place in which they are at, deemed in many spiritual circles as false reality, needs to be freed from so you can find the "Truth/Infinity". These circles miss a tremendous amount of reality in this divided rejection and may find themselves in a constant mental dance in order to feel as though they are free from this old/false/wrong place, not understanding that this false place they think they are freeing themselves from is actually "Truth/Infinity" itself already. The second is similar in that it takes a notion that there is a experience that is somehow now as opposed to another moment that is not now. This again is another mental game/dance that can form in the person in which they try to align themselves in some idea of being in a now state. This can include forms of trying to breath just right, or push thoughts and feelings aside to be closer to some formed now experience, or some way of seeing their thought/feeling state as in a now, or not in a now. Again both of these are false idea's that miss the recognition of reality itself happening. One could argue that what I'm speaking about is objective seeing, but this is not objectivity in the traditional sense. There is not a viewer that sees itself seeing something to verify its objectivity over something else. You can throw many practices into this box as well, including yoga, meditation, breathing exercises, trying to be your true self (which for a lot of people is just a mental construct that someone has formed through many books on reading the subject), mantra's, and many more. Yet ironically and true to the mindfucking paradox that this Infinity is, these practices when done without getting trapped in what I've outlined above, slowly reveal the direct truth/experience and understanding of seeing and knowing yourself with and a part of infinity and maybe even sometimes As infinity. Its as if you want to do "spiritual" practice without a reason or idea, but just a simple part between waking and sleeping and having sex.

hi 1x0, Can you clarify what pursuing experience that pulls you means. And then what you mean by putting the brakes on as a result of those statements. Generally those statements aren't thrown around to stop, but widen the mystery of things. If you mean looking for what interests you and then these statements somehow make you believe that you shouldn't since you are nothing and constantly changing, so whats the point of pursuing. Then ask yourself what do you want to do, and forget about what you read is right? Nothingness can still enjoy pursuits and changes, and its own nothingness as well. Why not celebrate in the unique and changes that happen as well. If its because you read somewhere that things are not this way ultimately, just throw it out, its b.s.

If you can get lost in enjoying yourself, then just do that. If your in the figuring out stage, take a look at a post I did, it may be helpful.

Ya its a hard thing being alive isn't it. Its ok. It sounds like it may do you some good to create some company, just simple companionship can go a long way. The being outside thing is natural, we feel good in the outdoors as humans, its close to home from our evolution. I am sure you can find Source now. Its there trust me. Have you ever just sat for a moment in silence and really just asked god for a sign or a little love (I know god is dismissed a lot these days, and totally understand if you don't like god, but really be open to it just once and see what happens). You'd be surprised, something may open up you were not expecting.

Have you proven that your thinker of your thoughts and feelings? Have you proven that you have free will? Or that the brain is the source of free will or perhaps god? Have you proven that your a human being? I imagine you anyways carry on as though they are grounds to be rational from, yet they remain unproven. Dont be so hasty to throw things away as foolish.

nvm

Can you accept or let in the paradoxical possibility that yourself being different and apart of it all, are the same? That love and its opposite are the same. Its all the same source man. When you can let that in totally, then you are it, it is it, they are it, its all it. But don't let that drag you into nihilism, just let worry about what I said go, and see what happens.

Are you sure all of reality/infinity follows this principle of "expands itself at this uncanny, stable rhythm - the 'mastery' rhythm." Just out of curiosity what same/similar rhythm does a tree growing and human ego mastering have? Really would be fascinated if you pointed this out.

Many gods and all is god within nonduality dont conflict. They only appear to too you.

The universe can communicate in some interesting ways. Looks like it could of been something. What are you lonely about?

this can be a weird place to be, sometimes I still feel this come up. What I've found is that this is a nihilistic interpretation that happens on its own through the mind. You see the is: being the end ? what's left to discover ? what's left to create ? is it borringness that his left ? Are all worried/fearful conclusions being drawn in relation to a big understanding that is growing in you. don't worry, see the truth of what I'm saying. trust and let the remainder of what happens when you drop your worry of what it means, be the life that you allow to happen and grow into a new you. keep coming back to this over and over till you pass through this fearful response/habitual response.

Three sides of the coin are true, false and unknown. Direct experience is still an idea and one that many dont see. Like the be "here" "now", see things as they "really" are. Just idea's one conceives they are achieving when they think its happening.

First what do you mean by grounded? Like unaffected? Your always gonna feel, something, your relationship to it is what matters. Stable in your belief of yourself? This may or may not be serving you. Meditation is something that can have a grounding effect on some. choosing to meditate and be with what ever arises not holding on to it or fighting it or talking with it. Then when your in the world you can be more freely as though it was a metaphor for your meditation practice, not clinging, fighting or arguing with it. simply be there, understand, state your case and move forward.

You think you, the patterns, the pill pattern and the existential are different things. They are all one and the same.

Welcome! Just out of curiosity, what did you find most informative or useful?