Mu_

I'm curious how this model has helped people. Like has it given you context and understanding about yourself and others and made change in your character of being as result? Or do you find it has been a distraction and a source of feeling good or bad about yourself and others based on how high or low you think you or others are on the spiral? Personally when I was learning/using it, I just found this to be a source of distraction from just connecting with people, putting me in a space of trying to see someone in a lens of Spiral ideas. Plus I'd feel a movements of superiority to others based upon my supposed level or an-others. Honestly I'm curious about others experiences. Because I know its been a positive tool for people.

Thats beautiful, thanks for sharing and putting into those words. I've had similar experiences as well.

Thats good to hear, this is one thing I imagined it could do for people, to take things serious they once didn't or be open to others and idea's they are not exposed to and see it within a model of "why". Like when a kid is like I don't like girls, they are icky, and are convinced of this until they go through the "stage" of puberty. I guess SD is just a model to hopefully help people be open to growth that they are convinced isn't possible and open some area's that the person wouldn't of chosen otherwise or explored/experimented with.

Sounds like insight.

Joseph brings a good point and that was very helpful in my spiritual journey after hating and trying to some how kill the ego (just a mental game really). If you really really really observe this "ego" thing, do you really know its a "ego" or is this just another label of some sort of emotional/mental thing going on inside? Because honestly, before you called what ever you do a ego going on inside, there probably was never some sort of marker/sign in your experience that said this is ego this is ego, and this is not this is not.. Then for what ever reason you read something, heard something, and then you just started believing inside yourself what was and what wasn't ego. Maybe? Ultimately though, if you've seen or heard, or believe that all is One/Self/God/Infinity, then really what is not that, even this so called "ego"/ego naming thing appearing to go on?

It may be part depression and part retraction from your spiritual work. you just may be in a phase. I can relate to some of this stuff in my past. I dont know if this helps, but instead of looking at having to change yourself in some grand way or fix a problem, just stop your self from doing shitty things, like junk food, weed, drinking, cigarettes, prostitutes. I mean if you don't really feel like doing anything, then don't, its your life, but dont do things that are destructive instead, unless you feel like doing those and if you do then ask yourself why those things? If you keep questioning in this manner you may reveal a destructive desire, and thats something you can work with. Thats a place you can maybe make some new changes, if you want, if not, its up to you. But dont let it be a strange mystery of why your doing it to yourself/its happening by itself. Maybe you'll need to take some more steps at this point, but atleast find out whats going on inside.

Sounds like just energy movement and release, nothing to worry about. Unless it gets extreme and painful, it should be fine.

@Jack River Also are you on this forum learning still, teaching, a little of both? How would you say your quality of life has changed as a result of these understandings. Would you say you've become a kinder person and more connected with people?

These observations are of a enlightened mind and if being lived, is from everything I've read and experienced is what is referred to as Freedom, real freedom. If you have read nothing and came to this somehow, consider yourself lucky....I guess lol, or fortunate, although all just is Self we rest within and as.... Would you say that within any of your awakening God/Self/Creation understanding has been sparked? Like something consumes you in a way that is undeniable and its pure love.... Not to sound esoteric, but its the best analogy I can think of. Peoples awakenings and differences fascinate me.

Ya we seem to have fundamental differences in word selection. At times you seem to be speaking about almost the exact same thing I am, and at others perhaps a little different.

I think emanyalpsid is pointing to something I was trying to point to as well (again disclaimer, if your happy remain, but if your interested in stretching understanding, keep eyes and ears open). The notion you tell yourself that your seeing from unconditioned awareness is still an idea you believe. To let go of this is I guess to be more in the unknown. For a while when I let this in it opened another layer of being free, because there is less that was being upheld, controlled within. This letting go lead to more letting go and the recognition you shared in a post above that you can't really ever claim to be anywhere, fixed/not fixed, so to claim enlightenment is kinda silly (only reason I ever said I was in 1 post ever was because seomeone asked and I hoped that saying yes would help others trust more, but its a double edge sword to make a claim with that word, you repel people to, and honestly my awakening process is not going to be the same for others, everyone needs life, other teachers, self inquiry, time, no-time). Then for what ever reason I can't explain, one day, boom I woke up to who I really was and who we really all are, Self/God and its remained, wasn't expecting it, didn't believe it was ultimately real prior. Seemed like after 18 years of seeking, facing death, tons of self idea's, observations, connecting with spiritual teachers and hearing them and feeling their presence, connecting with spirits, drug experiences, and a culmination of the last few months, the last thing that seemed to be the final step was waking up to a knowing/memory of my original source, like the literal experience we can all relate to, one moment we dont know where our keys are that were placed somewhere, and then all the sudden you go oh ya they were right here, in my pocket, how silly, AND the memory of doing it is there with it. It was like remembering being Self/God before birth.

@Aquarius Thank you for sharing. Ya relationships can be like that. Both parties have unresolved emotional stuff that always complicates, but this is not a negative, its the potential for both parties to grow. If your into actualizing and he's not, and you guys are in constant on again off again, maybe its best just to recognize that and move on, no blame to either party. There's probably someone out there who is also looking to grow as well, and may be a better match for you, I dont know. This is your heart, not mine. You can still make efforts to take responsibility for your emotional stuff even if your partner doesn't but thats really hard, really really hard.

In this incarnation, no. But I could see the potential thrill of it in testing ones self out in a due or die situation, or a challenge to one self. I use to be vegitarian for 3-4 years + vegan for almost 2 years. Now I 25% meat and 75% vegitarianism, sourced from humanely raised.

the mind-body is effected by its environment. Often what happens when awakening happens or progress towards awakening (although this is a illusion of sorts) what your pointing to as the mind-body is effected since awaking up is the same as environmental change, like moving from a violent ghetto to a more tranquil suburb in america. Psychological effects are going to natural happen, since "environmental" triggers/threats have disappeared. So awakening to Self is from a mind-body standpoint a moving to a new location. You see, generally environment is interpreted by mind-body as you use it in a "I'm here", and theres an internal environment to me and an external one called outside (tree's, birds, humans, etc). Awakening turns this on its head and distinctions are blurred, stripped and one can see ultimately there is no outer/inner (along with this awakening there is generally new truths and understanding that strip away psychological suffering as well, generally cultivated through spiritual practice/inquiry). All these factors are a radical moving to a new environment from the Mind-Body stand point. This new environment has new qualities or "new residents" called bliss, expansiveness, calm, thrill, freedom, ease, love, joy. The Mind-Body (personality) then in this apparent new environment are often effected as a result.

Theres more then enough room in the Self for everyone to have their opinion on this.

All of the above and then some.

Often not.

Maybe you get it, maybe you don't, maybe you want to get it, maybe you don't, either way its fine, theres no "out there requirement" you have to, but as a seeker of truth, I imagine its what your trying to understand, or maybe I've misunderstood. And maybe its not my place, so I'll leave it at that.

As much as I've been able to follow, its in line with many of the same understandings I've encountered as well. But I do admit some of your usages of words/metaphors and analogies you've shared, I have a hard time following sometimes. Its no fault, I get told the same thing sometimes. I guess as a soul recognizing a soul searching for and trying to understand this whole thing called "....." I've been trying to highlight a particular nuance to you that maybe is not my place to.. There is only 1 thing and your nonthing and my idea's and all our idea's on this forum and realizations are "It".

So are you actually a surfer? Your dudes, brah's, profile picture and other use of language makes me think of stereo typical surfer.

I'm in the same boat.

Not that its that big of a deal, because if you truely are where you describe it can be pretty perfect, nothing needs to change. However in the pursuit of truth and who and what you are. The place your referring to as ultimate is only 1 vantage point of all the infinities views, it is not itself the ultimate. I dont think its possible to have a view that is simultaneously experiencing the infinity of all views from their vantage point at all times with all knowledge and all past and all destiny included. This is what I referee to as Gods view and its unreachable and unknowable. Self understanding of this I believe can free you as the "i" and into understanding i-I and letting go of pointing to a state/location/idea of god/infinity/awareness/nonduality and into a continuous recognition that God is never not the case.

Am'ness is still a quality

Neti Neti, even more then what your pointing to.

Yes, well said. And the totality of what you are sharing is you as well. There was never a moment or event in which it was not you.