Mu_

@Hansu Ya sounds like a lack of self love. Learn to drop shaming and regretting yourself. Its less obvious that your doing then say, self hating and blaming but saying stuff like, man I'm stupid for doing this, or I can't believe I did this, or Im ashamed for doing this and feeling sorry for yourself after, is something you can drop when you catch yourself doing it. This is the equivalent to dropping the stick in which you beat yourself with and is a form of self love.

@seeking_brilliance Thats pretty cool man.

Ok try on this VR helmet for a moment. Same exact everything happens to each of these women A women gives birth through a an hour process involving suffering and love. Was it one or the other? Or both? One mind may summarize it as an amazing experience perhaps the best moment of their life. Another mind may see it more quantitatively and say it was 10 mins of agonizing suffering and 50 mins of unbelievable joy, so overall a net benefit making it objectively a good experience. Another may say it was an awe full experience as a whole and would never do it again. A zen mind may say they were one and the same unbroken and you can’t separate the two because they are intertwined as an event Notions of is it this or is it that aren’t so easy to nail down. And this includes the subjective notion you want to claim as a reason why something called enlightenment or Love doesn’t exist. Empty your cup, maybe you’ll find out.

@RedLine also another valuable thing to consider is that despite each perspective having its own view , suffering/love, doesn’t necessarily mean anything about Reality or a possible Creator. Lots of people get bent out of shape and feel horrible about life because suffering exists or even worse that because suffering exists it means that Reality or a Creator is flawed, twisted or evil. These are just idea’s with no real basis other then logic that make sense to them. Again this is not arguing for or proving the good of or existence of Reality, just pointing to assumptions that are held as Truths and cause degrees of suffering. I’m sure you’ve heard this before but there’s pain and then there’s fear, tightening, dreading, anger, frustration and all sorts of added reactions to pain or the possibility of pain happening again and/or again every time that familiar habit you or I have that always seems to cause pain or discomfort. For a lot its the dreaded work day and the all sorts of suffering people have about it. But it’s often not work itself but the ideas around work or a particular boss or person or emotions that come up at work or how work takes you away from what you prefer. More for others it’s a trauma around something and every time that particular thing occurs the pain in relationship to the trauma happens and the person things it’s the thing itself and not the trauma they had anbout the thing. I’m rambling now, but I hope your seeing the direction I’m pointing towards

Hahaha do we? Its not negative. Nor is it neutral.

Neither.

@RedLine sometimes the word Love is not a good word to use for explaining ‘what is’. By the sound of your post and tension you sound a lot like me at one point. And the word Love caused to much contention in my mind with trying to connect all the dots of all the information that’s out there on the subject of Truth. Human experience of Love or good very often brings up images that are Emotional or actions of a certain type toward ‘another’ that don’t cause pain or suffering and for others it’s associated with romantic gestures or kindness and giving something to the poor or ‘another The Love (and any word could be used instead since it’s just a word) awakening is pointing to is something that encompasses those types and is more than. It doesn’t leave out the ‘subjective’ points of view and experience of love or suffering. It it sounds like atm you may be hooked on the notion of subjective which very often hinges on the unquestioned assumption of that there are actual or inherent individuals to begin with having experiences. Is there room inside you that leaves open the possibility that this may not be the case? if you dont know, it’s just as good, assume nothing, letting go of subjective or objective or individuals or collective or All is god as an additional layer put on top ‘.......’ or the mystery of what’s happening now simultaneously everywhere. Just be in the Truth of really not knowing nor questioning into unsubstantiated notions of ‘anything’. Or if you want to keep questioning, do that. Cheers.

Awakening is a very interesting thing and one could say its in its infancy in terms of how its understood, quantified and expressed here on earth. On the one hand it can easily be wrapped up into as simple as a word or phrase as "One", or "All is One" or "All is God". There's no duality or material so to say in this expression and understanding. And while its true, lots of interesting nuance and subtly is often lost in the expression of and experience of/as "God" in this way. Your questions Are simultaneously God, and bring up the Infinite nuanced depth of mechanics and working of systems (which again are simultaneously and always God) that so to say influence and hold together structures of reality. These structures often have what one could call rules, like gravity, but like all sandboxs where things are made or sprout up from nothingness, the rules can and do change as well (and yes they may hold together for what one could call 15 billion more years). You ask about entities which is something I have some familiarity with, and there are entities that you could say from the nuanced level we are cells in the body of, just like we have cells/life forms in/as us that make up our body so to say. These entities have agency so to say, just like we appear to have and feel agency (even if ultimately it is ALL God simultaneously). You could say "Its all one and simultaneously its infinitely nuanced and changing", but still this wouldn't fill out the whole picture or exactly express what's happening. Edit: Oh and to answer your question about being able to heal anything or do anything through "Will". It's neither unattainable nor a prerequisite to waking up to God/What you are.

No ones accusing you of anything, I said that as an example so you could put yourself in his shoes and see how someone comes at you calling you a liar or coming from your ego without much getting familiar with one another. I understand you may feel strongly about this, and may be right, but wouldn't it make sense to get some clarity of definition and learn what the other person is saying before jumping to conclusion? Anyways this isn't a reprimand or even a major issue, just food for thought.

@WaveInTheOcean @VeganAwake Okay you two, stop comparing the size and shape of your packages and why one looks better or has more reasons to exist than the other. Touch tips and play nice.

"I have no disicpline, i have no work ethic, i am a yo-yo self helper, one week i feel good and have good habits, then i'll slip back into depression for a month, nothing sticks. " But how does this make you a loser? See your judge, jury and executioner here. Another way of putting it is you believe yourself to be guilty of being a loser "judge" based upon the evidence work eithic, yo-yo self help, no discipline, "jury", and most likely you feel depressed about this, self hate in some way, wish you were something other "executioner". I bet something closer to the Truth is you do have some degree of discipline, some degree of ethics, and you probably care some degree about others at various times. Also guess what most people are concerned and thinking about themselves more so than others, its so common its normal, no need to feel like the blacksheep and beat yourself up over it, you can't just say "hey, I should care 10x more right now and into the future", it doesnt work that way. First start with eliminating beating yourself up, then incorporate appreciation and gratitude for what you do have. Are you free of major illness? Do most of your body parts work? Do you have food each day? Shelter? Guess what, its not a given or a promise from life that you get those, so say a little thank you inside and out, not because you must or someones forcing, but because trust me it can get so much worse. Dont wait till you lose something for you to miss it and wish it was still here.

Your entitled to have your own experience an opinion on the matter, and I get your reacting to protect others from what you believe is dangerous, thats very kind, however he's sharing a view that is his and so far isn't encouraging anything dangerous so far (I'm keeping an eye on this), he's bringing his own perspective on how these Deities and spirits have their own opinions and opinions of other deities and spirits. In my limited time in this domain of spirits/Deities I can see what he's talking about, I can't prove or disprove it but I've had moments where it seemed like it might of been that way. You both seem to share overlapping views in that you want to approach these entities humbly/respect. He has many different experiences as well, perhaps they are valid, I dont know, but I do know theres SOOOOOOO much we don't know about what we can see, feel, touch, hear, taste, smell, and sense, so working with Deities and Spirits is still pretty open ground in terms of knowing how it works, wouldnt ya say Anyways I stand by what I originally said, no need to accuse him of lying or coming from ego. The same could easily said to you because people have different experiences than yours. Wouldn't you say thats what constantly goes on in the world with scientists, politicians, Religions saying this person is evil or flat out wrong or dangerous because the situation or information conflicts with their own?

I dont think you get what he's saying here. I'm paraphrasing him. He's saying the word/symbol "demon" but it doesn't necessarily translate to an actual demon, its the Christians that are calling these "somethings" the word Demon. Again this isn't to say these "somethings" are coming from hurtful intentions or not, I can not say. Its kinda like if I said your " evil " and a "demon" because you are human or because of your strictly your skin color. Humans would fall under many accepted definitions of what the term demon is pointing to in terms of how they treat those around them that are not human, and even towards humans as well. Or if a Christain called you a demon and a sinner because you don't believe in Jesus or have had sex outside of marriage. Does their beliefs for their reasons make you a Demon? This is what I believe he meant.

I've been pretty rock bottom, but I don't think my resolution will fit your circumstance. It sounds like you may be going through a heavy case of self judgement. By what definition of loser are you? Your own? Your parents? Your friends? Your culture? All of them? Do those definitions define you or are those just their perceptions? Again are you a immoral person with no code of ethics or is this only in comparison to blue moral and ethical codes?

Huh? Do you know him personally? Why do you assume he wants things handed to him on a silver plate?

Now I don't know fully where he's coming from and what his behavior is in relation to these things, but he does seem to try and explain that some of what he refers to "demons" are just given that name from Christian perspectives and perhaps not real evil intention entities. English is also not his first language. No need to accuse the guy of coming from ego or lying.

@ardacigin Congrats on your progress, lots of juicy insights so far and many surprises ahead I'd imagine.

Ya this phase can be very troubling and may take a lot of love, patience and understanding to travel through so to say. I'm going to ask you a few questions, and I want you to really penetrate into these questions and sit with them with a investigative openess. Don't rush this process, let it be something you really look into perhaps over the next few weeks at first. Are you the monster that your experiencing "inside", or are You "whats aware" of this monster? Is it true that your hearing this monster "inside", is is it true your feeling this monster "inside" and if it is, are you the monster or only that which hears and feels this energetic "monster"? Now look closer, is this "monster" really a monster or is it what is currently being labeled a monster? What is the underlying form of this monster? Images? Thoughts? Emotions? A combination? If any of this is unclear after you try looking into, let me know and I can phrase it differently. Let me know what you come up with in a few days otherwise and if anything shifts or opens up that is new.

Did this start happening after your enlightnement experience a while back? If so, it sounds like ego backlash. Did you watch Leo's video on ego backlash? Ive dealt with ego back lash a lot so feel free to ask me any questions that may be helpful for you.

"What is the highest most loving selfless perspective"? How about some acceptance, and not telling people you don't know what level of development they are at? Love is radically open and accepting, and if two men want to put their heart and soul on the line to see who's the last one standing, why not? I use to train MMA and had a few fights, a lot of these guys a very respectful and look at this as a battle of wills and wits and accept the risks, most dont have bad blood between eachother and honor the rules and when the fights called they are very respectful to one another. For some its the only option they have to support their family and selfs. Lots of good role models to in that world being the exact teacher of values for those around them for the, people that can relate at what ever level of development they are at. If you want to use levels, then understand that role models and value structures are going to look very different at each level, but are exact and perfect for groups of people at that level. Theres no higher role model, a Tyson of the world is just as important as a ramana maharshi for another group. Inner city kids are going to role their eyes and get very little benefit from Ramana, where as say a Tyson guy who they can relate to can spit some relevant shit for them that can help better their life.

Remember its ok to feel pain and alone, its okay to face fear and what you sinned. Let it be, dont punish yourself, and let it just be or go. Your ultimately bigger than it all. See what happens when you ask god to forgive you. If nothing happens, forgive yourself

Why is the fact that there seems to be some degree of suffering from your point of view a problem, and how does it conflict with love? When you really come to "your" answer, then ask yourself, does your belief line up with Reality or is it just a belief? You may then ask what is Reality. Good exactly, you don't know....yet. So be open and let go of this preconceived idea of god and the question. Its fine if you want to keep the old belief and keep seeing that way, but perhaps you may see that you can drop it, and find out what reality looks like without the belief for a while, maybe learn and see something new. You can always come back to your previous belief if you want.

Sounds like this zen guy missed the lesson on love.

Prayer can be a loving and life saving thing. If you truely truely are on your knee's, sometimes you open up just enough for Gods infinite potential to make anything happen, happen. Thats also why sometimes when people hit their ROCK rock bottom, they find god. They just came to the end of their suffering and played it out as far is it could go, and there was nothing left but to be left with God.

God is the best comedian around.