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Ya in a sense I get your apprehension, I'm one of the most skepitcal people around as well at one point, and to some degree still. I mean you seem to be accepting certain certainties/rules like why making sense happens or how language is or works or is part of communication, perhaps you assume autonomy (im not sure), and yes I'm using a form of connection/example/language to form a point. Perhaps it doesn't make sense to you, which is fine, but I think by your own rules you'd have to prove your rules as well to prove I'm breaking them. But again, tree's plant seeds, which grow trees, tree's seem to come from earth, earth seems to have come from a galaxy that supposedly was birth from a big bang event, that presumably came from or resulted from "something". Maybe the chain of connection is broken, but then where would these two instances be in? "something/somewhere/nowhere" i'd imagine and even if it can't be nailed down I don't know how you could make a sensical argument that the grand "totality, or what ever actual is happening" is not in some way influencing, resulting, connected, responsible (although this is a loaded word), involved with in infinite degree's of seperation, with this moment of possibilty congitizing something on this screen as you read. Also you said that this possible something could seperate itself because anything is possible, but what would it seperate itself from or with? ITself I'd imagine since thats all there is and guess what thats not seperation, lol, thats just more continuations of itself and thus still happening now. If thats not what "something" is then refer to previous paragraph. Oh to reply to your "The fractured "something" is of course not a feature of physicalism which has a non-dual "cosmology/ontology" and merely fractures your direct experience from "something" in a way you can't experience directly." You don't need to experience the from "something" directly, the fact that there is "something" is proof of "something" (not saying nondual god, infinity or any particular cosmology/ontology).

Ok interesting, new stuff to answer. Ok I'll start with the last one first. Where would supposed computers that are seperate from each other, running individual programs that creates our experience of "inquiry" and "mystery" be housed? Somewhere I'd imagine in which "something" is happening. Ok, to your first paragraph, which the above answer kinda answers. Even if there is infinities outside of perceptions, what does that have to do with the acknowledgement now that "something" is happening. And to your doubtful physicalism paragraph, hmmm, so your saying its possible for there to be like a cosmology/ontology that goes to a point, then stops, and then something later appears called you and me talking with no connection to the original ontology/cosmology and no connection to a new foundation or anything? Sounds like your making up 4+3 could equal 15 just because you thought about it in your mind and it made sense (no offense).

Could you go more into detail how I’m wrong, or do you just not agree, it would help me better respond. I’m not sure what a nondual conclusion is. But I can see how you may be interpreting what I’m broadly inferring as nondual since as you’ve highlighted in your second paragraph that you can’t be sure, of much. However what is this being sure I’m not a computer, you serious, are also saying your not sure your a computer? Anyways it doesn’t matter either way, a computer being and answering would in the same validate “somethings” .....happening?.... or do computers float around independently of environments or foundational systems or properties, like a One-nondual computer machine, which I’m not saying but if it was, that would fall into what an ontology/cosmology is and would be the answer of what’s behind the “something” happening. Or wouldn’t this supposed computer answering indicate that it’s connected in the broadest sense to a larger layer of stuff making “computer” possible. Again pointing to what I’m saying, “something” is happening and is broadly connected to anything. Also if we are both computers, then did a computer think up this thought experiment you used to prove me wrong, lol.

The video is made more to stimulate frames of understanding how perspectives see and contextualize stuff and leave you with feeling the depths of such possibility and coming closer to your understanding. Perhaps my own take is also coming out as well which is in the realm of what you estimated.

?? Did I tag you or something in the post? By the way your responding it feels like it. Either way if I did, which it doesn't look I did, it wasn't directed at you. Anyways, lay out what you mean by I'm simply wrong, lol, how is this any different then your accusation if your not willing to lay out any information from your side? But again how can it simply be wrong that "something or nothing or how ever you want to parse or phrase this moment of happening as you comprehend these words" is not happening? I'm not giving any cosmology or ontology about such or defining anything as god or nondual, again just pointing to the validity of there's obviously something going on. If there actually is objectively a cosmology or ontology that is responsible for this "something", then walla, thats whats taking/taken place. And if "....something...." doesn't objectively line up with a cosmology/ontology, well walla, thats whats happening.... Are you saying there is actually a way in which things are Absolutely/Objectively/Non-Objectively (again which I'm not defining), that isn't in some way connected or responsible for this obvious "something" you and I can agree is being experienced? Does this make sense?

Sounds like you may be having similar hookups to Someonehere, so I thought I'd share with you what I shared with him. "Ok to clarify again what I'm saying since you seem to boil down what I'm saying to the field of thought/perception/human consciousness, and as such those capacities are an inherently limiting and couldn't possibly see beyond into what possibly may be? Is this kinda your contention? Because ya, its sometimes good to have healthy skepticism and know your limitations and place so to say. However, in relation to that train of thought, what I'm saying is the fact that thought/perception/human consciousness or just the acknowledgement that comprehension is going on this moment "exist or is taking place" is proof in of itself that "something" is going on no matter what its cosmology or ontology, what ever this mystery is, IS or IS taking place, and its taking place before you even write it down or put it into words, and its obvious because this interaction is going on now (although I am now since we are talking). Its so simple its almost stupid, forget what nonduality, god, consciousness means, thats not what I'm talking about. Im basically saying, I don't know what anything is, but "something" is going on and what ever it is, is going on, like duh. Then if you get the stupid simplicity of that, and are not longer trying to figure out what exactly that may be, simply ask and maybe recognize, could what ever the mystery of whats going on, not be going during the inquiry of doing so, and if no, then whats going on now..... the mystery of what is? Pretty stupidly simple and may seem unimportant, almost like saying salty tastes salty right,...... right.....AMAZING.

@Someone here Something I made a video on that connects to this conversation is what do you call something that depends on something else to be called anything to begin with. Check out my link and open the video about "what is fear, what is anything", should be at the top. Basically is a human a human, or do atoms make up humans? Is it both? Or is a human dependent on a combination of environment, oxygen, water, earth, gravity, big bang, blood, microorganism, etc.... Are they all true, or does the most underlying "something" define everything? Like for example if a human is made up of atoms, its not a human, its atoms labeled as a human.... Or if its both, because you can see both a human and the atoms at the same time, what then do you call either if they are the same at the same time? (this ones a kicker, a real mind fuck that I think your looking for) Watched the video, I dont want to type it all here, it adds a lot of food for thought to this question you originally asked.

Ok to clarify again what I'm saying since you seem to boil down what I'm saying to the field of thought/perception/human consciousness, and as such those capacities are an inherently limiting and couldn't possibly see beyond into what possibly may be? Is this kinda your contention? Because ya, its sometimes good to have healthy skepticism and know your limitations and place so to say. However, in relation to that train of thought, what I'm saying is the fact that thought/perception/human consciousness "exist or are taking place" is proof in of itself that "something" is going on no matter what its cosmology or ontology, what ever this mystery is, IS or IS taking place, and its taking place before you even write it down or put it into words, and its obvious because this interaction is going on now (although I am now since we are talking). Its so simple its almost stupid, forget what nonduality, god, consciousness means, thats not what I'm talking about. Im basically saying, I don't know what anything is, but "something" is going on and what ever it is, is going on, like duh. Then if you get the stupid simplicity of that, and are not longer trying to figure out what exactly that may be, simply ask and maybe recognize, could what ever the mystery of whats going on, not be going during the inquiry of doing so.....?

Exactly and how else could else not be happening? If not, what exactly are you saying or denying?

Said it better than I ever could.

@Gesundheit I know what you mean and its a good a stance as any. However when I was using the word "consciousness" I wasn't talking about something in particular with an exact definition, more so a pointing towards something that is fundamental, no matter what the exactness of what that may be. Kinda like what ever is, IS, even if you don't know the possible timeline (or if that even exists), how it dresses, what it does on its own, how it looks, if its a nothing or a something (what ever that may or may not mean or qualifies within those parameters), if its Love or Hate (what ever that may or may not mean or if it qualifies within those parameters), wether its infinite and goes on to infinities or stops at some point and no longer goes out and you arrive at an Eternal (or neither) or if IS falls within a Dream like Magicalness with no fundamental linearities in which logical or language could formulate something cohesive about it, No matter what is, IS! This, right, now, reading, comprehending, thinking, wondering, disagreeing, or agreeing, these, words, IS. What ever that may be. Again even if you can't put a definition on or quantify or qualify in exactness, IS. What else could there be?

@Someone here I was about to say something, but Leo basically said it. Another way to say the same thing in another way using your own train of thought, is if there are 2-4-8 layers, then the layers are made out of what?? Consciousness of course, and thus all Layers are always Consciousness. This is what I've been trying to nudge you towards since you still see Ego and Human and Layers as layers unto themselves instead of layers made out of the same "......".

@Vittorio Not sure if you saw my previous post, but it sounds like your well on your way in understanding what your looking for, your insights are very deep and fast.

@Adodd I made this video a while back which covers another angle on purpose and meaning that doesn't get a lot of talk in self help circles which for me helped a lot to let in while I was in a similar situation you sound to be in.

Lol. Dont know why this made me crack up.

People say I'm smart, and I think Im smart to, so yes i "think" one can "think" and "describe" themselves as being smart. And yes you can "think" and "describe" why you "think" this can't be done with your own "reasons" and "descriptions".

Really great reflections and insights that will carry you forward into more insights, keep going. That said here's some more to reflect on. What does the enlightenment your looking for look like? What are you doing all this for? Is there something about your old life that wasn't enough?, or was the person you thought you were a loser or a failure or some other negative notion and enlightenment would set you free from that or improve you? Do you understand that your not a problem and theres nothing wrong with you right now and never was, all the feelings, and experience that it was true, were just idea's, All idea's of being a failure, not kind enough, still get angry, confused, frustrated, diet isn't perfect, not meditating enough, are all just idea's and imagination in eachothers minds (fun games we play in our minds)? Its all already ok. Nothing needs to be fixed because nothing is broken fundamentally. Let this sink in for a while, and once you've deeply understood this, sure maybe go out and volunteer if you like, make a good attempt at not road raging, improve your diet a little if it makes you sick, meditate to relax or just enjoy the moment, let kindness come through more and more here and there. But again, there is nothing wrong with you already nor anyone for this matter (this is really important), because this is were you gain real understanding, compassion, acceptance, greater peace of mind around "others", and maybe it will start to reveal itself that "others" are really no different then "you/You". Humans experiences challenges, struggles, fears, pains, family, bonds, love in various degree's, confusions, passions or lack there of, likes, dislikes,. Humans come from the big bang, the earth, is made out of water, atoms, blood, tissue, experiences gravity. Everyone's made out of empty space, energy. Let go and let this sink in........you/You + "others" are all sharing something the same or VERY similar, isn't that amazing.

@Someone here I think you seeing more deeply into this stuff each week, but again keep looking, who is frustrated with who. Perhaps when it sinks in more deeply you will see there isn’t anyone else to be frustrated at so to say. Not two. And on a side what is the use in pointing to something worded as dualism when there isn’t dualism in the first place.

@Someone here all very enlightening. But who are you talking to so frustratedly?

@Javfly33 I don't know if I or anyone can answer the question your asking with certainty, but perhaps this shift of perspective can help create some ease in your pursuit and day to day. It sounds like you may be looking at your awakenings and path from the lens that You are and the ego is not that and its supposed to go away or shouldn't be there. If this resonates, how about instead of something like that, looking at it like, "You woke up to MORE of what you are, and this thing you label as Ego is apart of that and not an enemy to destroy or should of never been there or should go away". "Something" is obviously there that your calling Ego, just let it exist and focus your attention on how you want to be or what choices are you making that are not serving you well, and changing those or learning to relax into just being that way. Because often a lot of what we dont like about ourselves and call Ego, isn't really that much of a problem to anyone else, its just in our own idea that we think its not good or shouldn't be that way. Any of this make sense? If not, feel free to ask for clarification. Also this does not mean you can't explore into depths that require perhaps surrender, none-trying, meditation, psychedelics or pushing with effort, but again, when those things "happen" its MORE of the infinite dimension of possibility and depth of what You are, not EXACTLY what You are.

@soos_mite_ah lots of good advice here. I to was going to point out what pretty India and the other user said about stability. Hmmmm speaking from my own experience, something similar happened and brought me to question stability to, and in doing so I saw that since life is change and chaos of sorts, the only real stability is in accepting change and chaos. It is stability when you accept no stability as the natural foundation. When I let this deeply in, it automatically shifted things, and change was less a problem and instead I was put face to face with the old emotion and thought patterns of wanting stability and an exact comfy experience I was hoping for. This of course brought on a new stage you could say, one in which took a level of courage and inner reminder and acceptance that life is change and to relax and not seek out/surrender these old wants and wishes. Ego backlash is another way of phrasing it. Another thing maybe to try and may be useful is to stop labeling yourself as ego and not ego. And instead of trying to get rid of ‘ego’ just change what is about your negative habits or patterns that influence your life. Make sure your doing it because you see and understand why it’s effecting you and not because you read some interpretation of what ego or enlightenment I and what your supposed to do to make that happen (most of this shit is just silly ideas and interpretations). But if you just change what isn’t working for you, it makes it so much more simple and in line with you and your life, not someone else’s spiritual dogma and beliefs.

@xxxx you can never really know. I’d say make an assessment, make a decision, and live with the outcome.

You seem to understand enough. Even in uncertainty, you seem know such and In this sense you always know. Unless upon realizing this your not sure ? if you could be certain of uncertain or certain ?

I sometimes like to call it organic origination. It can be incredibly freeing for some because it just cuts through the game of trying to be a "non-doer" or gives back permission to a part of "actuality" to function freely. Sometimes when one goes down the rabbit hole of constantly trying to keep this false idea going that they are not the doer and all the lingo that comes with it and all the things it means about them (usually feeling like they are now more enlightened and if they were to face they are not, it would bring them crashing back down to being an EGO, lol or some other word, and face to face with the feelings around the idea's of being a doer). Another aspect of this is one found great freedom in understanding an aspect of non-doership and unconsciously adopted a new dogma in which if they were to question it would ruin what they felt they gained by understanding "nondoership".

Ya if your still open to this practice stick with it for a period, and let me know what comes up. Its really healthy to look at whats scary about behind "doership", such as responsibility, pressure, feeling responsible and thus perhaps obligated to suffer for getting "doership" wrong or right.... Also its really helpful to realize that doership doesnt conflict with chaos, surrender, nondoership. But none of this will make sense if one just clings to non-doership, particularly if its done when they are just hiding from the idea's behind what they think it means. Let me know if this makes sense.... you could almost say what I'm saying is "doership" and "nondoership" are just mind idea's. There's a healthy functioning of happening that is not either, but experiences arise that "feel" like either. hahahaha......