Mu_

And only if you'd realize some of that is your own possible projection and we live in a somewhat mysterious place in which "what is" is not exactly easy to claim as certainly as we see, feel, think and like That said you "may" have some points.... and sometimes that is the best we can say.

@Someone here If you got 25 mins these might help with some of the questions you are wondering..... Also a number of teachers such as Frank Yang, bentinho massaro, and I believe a few famous Indian mystics make the claim that its only when you fully let go of what you know, does the flame of Truth reveal itself and give rise to true wisdom. This was my experience it seemed as well. It wasn't a comfortable place to be in since its hard to go against the forces of ones own mind so to say, but again each person may have a different experience of going through this. It also seems that in the empty mind and a place of not know, the activity of being arises when needed, although not always perfect or ideal sometimes lol, but still a wisdom and a free flow of character that is a mystery. Its hard to put words though, what I just described has disappeared as well for the most part as an experience..... Its really a mystery and that is part of Truth in my opinion, but so is everything else, lol. I know often on this forum, this God awakening thing is seen as coming to a place of high knowing, but in every way except to know its Only itself exists, thats hardly what awakening has shown me.... oh and love and compassion and wisdom seem to just pour out of no where, lol. Honestly though, its not for everyone, and yet it is everyone, not all are or need to awaken to this Truth, Truth is doing much more then awakening to itself through a human view point.

100%, my comment was more coming from the response you gave in which you shared a loopty loop idea that one just gets back to something supposedly that was real to begin with and from such an idea repeats only to get enlightened again. I've been down this line of thinking and it had a kinda bondage nihilisticness to it, was only trying to help... If that wasn't true for you, lets just carry on and dance.....

Hahahaha and where would that "right back where you began" be? What was that "where you began or supposedly someone else began"? \ STOP Those images that came up when asked the above questions, are/were they true, are/were they accurate? Or just imagination? hmmmm not so easy to know or not know "what is or supposedly was"........

Hmm seems like you just did the same thing you were talking about of Leo and Frank.

My very partial understanding of hearing both of your guys videos and the difference, while also reflecting off my own awakening is that you two seem to have of awakened, but in reflection and communication of those events in order to describe to a supposed outside world, different words used to describe the story are different. In this difference you see each-other at different places since what you call No-Self, Leo calls God in many ways, and Leo calls No-self something different in many ways, but these stories are in a imaginary plane with imaginary systems and stages, each meaning its own thing to each of you through your own past experiences. All the while, both of you are the expression of the same "..." doing their best to cover "..."

As frank eluded to this can be very subtle. And at the same time it’s ultimately true. Be, what ever that is you.

But is it though. This is something I wanted to chat with you about because as I’ve let go and investigated and questioned and let go of that till “....”. The notion of “...” being a goal or the point or the reason or what “....” is about, it seems almost funny because for so long I and it seems almost all teachers hold onto this notion. Its kinda radical and it’s also not since “...” remains as always aware of itself or not. This one threw me for a loop for almost a year since so much seemed wrapped up in this notion that finding and awakening and awakening others to “...” was the reason or the point of IT all. Wondered if it’s ever arisen for you.

My man Nahm, coming out swing with some truth bombs. Careful, anymore of that and there won't be anyone left to listen. hahahaha

Ya this can be a bitter pill so to speak. Been caught in stuff like this before myself. However, realize this interpretation is yours, and not of what he said. Find interest in this phenomenon, REALLY examine this, look at it from all angles and all possibilities, really be mindfucked by what this means, let go, laugh and smile. If thats to vague, ponder some of these 1. No issue prior to listening to video, but afterwards a new negative emotional state seemed to be felt. 2. Unhappiness seemed to happen between the supposed point of hearing and interpreting Leo's words, maybe? 3. What happened during and between those two points? 4. Are these two points? Or one event? And if event, how far back does "event" go? Forever? 5. Can you just feel happy now? Since maybe what he said was actually very positive, even though it wasn't interpreted that way? 6. Can you just Be happy now even if what he said was not positive (maybe Leo wasn't telling the truth or perhaps was wrong or maybe Leo was just testing ya). 7. Since the number 7 is lucky, you feeling lucky now? Really take your time with these questions, really go into them, no rush, if you are looking for what Leo is pointing to, keep patient and try to have it all done quickly like so much is in this world of instant gratification....

Maybe I should watch the whole video before saying anything more, but that type of goal "to find a new perception and a permanent world shift" is the goal of many types of practices or atleast the goal of the student/teachers hope for the student sometimes.

Loved it, thanks for sharing.

I think you need a dose of some Matt Kahn videos.

Thats really interesting, thanks for sharing. Since I never really fully understood Buddhism and deeply read, I just assumed thats what no-self meant anyways. I think another reason I thought this was because of another saying from vedantic philosophy I believe. Basically its the argument that if there is only a singularity, no distance, no time, no volume, no space, then there is basically no-selfs and thus experience is arising for no-one or no-thing, what could really be said of anything as such, lol perhaps just thoughts of itself, but now im just rambling, hahaha.

I don't think Frank is at all saying what this guy is saying. Find my comment in the OP's video on frank yang, in which he responded to (I go by Into The Unknown on youtube). He explains in further depth what he's trying to say. I feel on some level he's pointing roughly the same thing Leo is in many ways, with less emphasis on You are consciously creating everything and more emphasis on Its arising as everything of no-ones volition or intention (this idea is a very eastern thought idea from what I've learned from Alan Watts, and is one I hold highly as well). Frank seems to have a different idea of development through stages than Leo on some level, but admits that these can be thrown out eventually and aren't holy rules in which all who awaken follow these linear sequences.

Interesting video. I'm not sure how I feel on what he's sharing. I don't know if I've heard of cessation ever described that way, it honestly sounds pointless in a way. Most interpretations of cessation I've heard or read about is a connection so to say to no-time, no-dimension, no identification, no pushing or pulling anything, and as such its generally blissful, and fulfilling in a way that is undescribable. The way he describes it, which I would not know why anyone would want to try to do so since you can just go to sleep or have someone punch you unconscious and still go through what he's saying is cessation. I mean if you learn to appreciate it after it happens, by all means, however you can just appreciate with love and gratitude after waking up from sleep every morning and not dedicate any time toward the type of cessation he is talking about.

You can say a lot about something that isn't real, even books are written on this subject, I prefer to say even less. To each his own

I'm really curious how this video was for some people. I know a lot of you out there are probably putting themselves through unneeded stress and fear thinking they have to die or are trying to box/contain/kill something in their experience they've labeled as Ego.

Ya its in the ballpark, and it also could be said to be like a mirage that appears to be something in particular, but upon finding out more, you find out it was something altogether different then it seemed or was assumed. More importantly how ever you saw it, or it impacted you, it shifted something in you by the sound of what you shared.

@Someone here Well if you don't remember any, then its likely, but not certain, you wont remember this one in the next one....you have first hand proof in this life

Subjective past life experiences.... Do you remember any?

Is it? Ego? You tell me. Would it matter if it was an ego or a smurf or a dodo.... It just seems like something and feels like something, no?. Does it need to be made into anything more. If you don't, what will happen? If so, who told you? Show me the sign post with its name on it and what it means and what is supposed to be done about it.... @The0Self

Lol.

Do you remember any past subjective experiences? No, well then there’s a good chance you won’t again. But who knows. ????

Ya its like that for most, but in time hopefully like being in strong wind, it will just become normal and something just taking place, not a distraction or meaning something about you. This is not a one and done kinda thing that you understand once and it happens... gettoefl gives some good advice on how to approach this.....