Mu_

To live a life so to say. Why else did you come into a body.

@Zion I think this is fundamentally the wrong way to look at and approach this notion. For starters it almost sounds like you’ve read about a map point or a what do that leads to something called waking up. And your using this imaginary map point to the figure out how you can make it happen more or faster. You see desire isn’t an issue, certain ones will always remain so to say, they just may no longer be issues or cause issues to you or others negatively. However yes, sometimes it is desire and it’s suffering that leads one to look into desire and it’s usefulness, but this is a organic thing. and with this sometimes the mechanism of identity is revealed as well and it’s sometimes thorniness in living.

Careful not to get caught up In imaginary questions. Like are you lacking hunger, are you lacking fame, are you lacking thirst, are you lacking someone else, are you lacking living, are you lacking love.

Are they any different.

What is the meaning of life.

What is the meaning of this sentence.

I know. A lot of this doesn’t make sense. Especially confusing when no around you understands you. It’s ok, don’t blame them, no ones fault really, not a good use of our energy right

Hi. Hello. Can you hear me. What do I sound like in your head. Hello. Do you hear me. Magic isn’t it. You can hear me.

How long was your day. 300 meters? 14 conversations? 3 shits, 1 egg McMuffin, and painful conversation at work? Was it warm or cold or a bit of I’m not sure. Do you remember it all, the steps walked, the conversational thoughts inside, how many times you breathed. What exactly do you remember? All of it...surely not. Half of it.... unlikely. 1/100th.... maybe you can’t know how much or what you forgot. Hmmmm so maybe you or I don’t know so much about who we are and everyone else.

Worth at least watching the first minute. Says a lot to dispel a number of traps the mind gets into on "the path".

Is Top on the other end of Bottom, In on the other side of Out, Now before Later or slightly After Before.

More prepared you’v become for these next ones. Wont be fooled this time. Looking intently.

Do you notice your heart beat as you read this. Did you try to find it just now. Was it missing.

@Girzo ya maybe it’s not for you. So where do you feel like things are at for you out of curiosity. You gave a interesting response to javfly33. Also If you’ve done cold showers growing up of course it will be normal. My advice was more about doing something to push into uncomfortability with an intent just to observe and appreciate the sensations themselves. Perhaps the mystery and miracle and even what the fuck, this sucks of them, hahaha. But to still go forward anyways. Also, sometimes just going into society again if you’ve become kinda detached or hermitic and observing what comes up without judgment is another good thing in a in between phase. It’s sometimes easy to make society and what goes on collectively and individually a new problem.

@Arzola @kieranperez it’s good to be careful who you trust and put your faith in. However if it rings true and comes from a killers mouth, it still may be valuable. Plus no one here knows if he’s a cult leader or not. It’s just stories. Just like many think Leo is a cult leader but he doesn’t appear to be from our experience most likely.

@Javfly33 you may want to start a practice of appreciating and embrassing suffering and imperfection. Become cozy with not being where you want to be. Become cozy with the ego mind blah blah blahing. Become cozy with soreness and bodily discomfort to some degree and stretch that little by little without injuring your body. Ei take cold showers few times a week. Really be still and cozy with fear and agitation and anger. Appreciate it like a scientist and get cozy with it like a pillow. But don’t become addicted to this practice. Joy and pleasure is a good balance since this practice has a potential toll if done with force pride and angerly hard nosing it. Also read a little about stoicism. And let in some of their mindset these all seemed to help in some way during the phase of life you decribed while i was in it @Girzo

@Kalo can you tell me about your drug dealers vagina.

@tatsumaru honestly we’re you hoping to become a Jedi master also so your friend sounds wise. It’s an interesting experience and experiment to try and not pay attention or believe ones senses. Try for a while on and off in a safe place. Something may appear where you didn’t know something could appear.

@tatsumaru your awake in my eyes and missing nothing. Trust your instinct about enlightenment. It’s just in your imagination. And there’s not one to find. Even if hypothetically there was you would have no idea what your looking for, and no teacher agrees on how to find this undefined thing. I know you don’t like to hear it, but this IS it. And no I don’t mean IT is everything or no-thing or infinity or God. This doesn’t mean more wisdom and understanding may not still occur, it may but you can’t make that happen. Btw knowledge and understanding how something works is overrated, and rarely is enjoyed longer then a few days. Same with being right or wrong. Also I don’t know if this helps but it’s okay for other teachers to supposedly know more or stuff that doesn’t make sense or is unfeasible, no need to waste energy and perhaps feel incomplete on longing or rejecting what they say.

@tatsumaru great. In a sense you are not missing anything but since you want to understand more I’ll continue poking. Honestly, how do you know your not enlightened and what is it in you that knows this is this knower or knowing sense always kinda there Or does it come and go

@tatsumaru Also it seems like you have idea's of awareness/I amness (we all do you could say, and ultimately its not an issue), one being that it is immediate or something and not "unlimitedness". while I'm not going to argue one way or the other, look into the fact that there is still definitions and idea's on your part so to say about "awareness/I amness" and if its possible to drop even those and any others that may come up. This is another type of self inquiry/deconstruction (as an experiment). There may be some ideas of awareness being dependent on a body, or environment, or not being dependent, see if you can drop even those. This can lead to a literal kind of unknown which is could be said to be devoid of any knowledge, self reference, dependence, choice, no choice, reason, non-reason, meaning-no-meaning.

I'm mearly trying to give pointers. The sentences and pointers have no value in and of themselves. Are you confused or feeling like your not understanding something, or are trying to understand more? And if so, what exactly. What exactly happened when you said to Leo "I just realized how I was thinking of it in terms of a 'here' and 'there. What was the "it" also... My feeling is this is a good starting point, because it seems like you've "learned/understood" a lot already, are open to more, and yet kinda defending your position, which is fine, I have no issues if this was the case...

@tatsumaru Location is a mathematical idea of sorts you could say, however the advice I believe he was giving is more along the lines of investigating the "sense" of location "internally" where you/i feel like it is. Like often, there is a sense of self that feels like it has a experience, rather then just experiencing, you could say. Like you may have a sense of self that feels like "its" experience is close to something like a black-hole, rather then just experience. This sense of self may think "The direct experience of this 'I amness' is simply awareness which is not unlimited". This sense of self may of felt like "I just realized how I was thinking of it in terms of a 'here' and 'there'. How can I surrender my center?" Well if you are interested in finding out, read further and is said to play a part in such a result..... Looking into "where" in experience the sense is coming from is self inquiry. Becoming aware of this and its movements and influence one could say is a potential part of awakening. You may in time begin to see how this sense, arises and disappears spontaneously, and this sense may influence all senses when it does so. You may notice that when this sense arises, the idea's of being in control or lack of control also arise simultaneously and pass simultaneously along with "it". This sense of self may begin to be agitated as its made aware of so to say and may scream and fight and all sorts of irrational confusing thoughts and extremes may happen (dark night kinda stuff) and it may not be easy, it may be the hardest thing you've ever experienced, and as such don't run for the hills wondering what the fuck is going on, know what your potentially getting yourself into. And in time it may become obvious that this sense of self is just that, a sense in which arises and falls as happening happens.....experience passes, actions pass. Remember though, This sense of self is not an enemy or a not supposed to be there, but could be said to arise and pass just like all what seems to happen, in fact in may be useful to have loving kindness to this part/process, just like a person you may encounter "in the world"..... Theres a lot more that may appear to happen as well during this time, and wisdom that may fundamentally change Understanding, but this is not able to estimated ahead of time so to say.

Yes.

@tatsumaru I agree, the same things that bothered you about connecting experience with external reality that don't seem to make any sense of how they connect, really bothered me and still does to this day. However a lot of my questions and pointers are in much the same way your first teacher brought you to looking at awareness that brought peace, my same questions can do something similar if interested, however only if its something worth your while, then again maybe it won't do anything. It may also answer some of the questions, confusions and frustrations you express about all these views and how they know.