Mu_

Did You finish reading this sentence? Did You start this one? Mysterious how this works.

@Gianna if you have insurance go see a doctor and get a scan to find out what’s going on. Also go see a massage therapist and see if body work helps. From there you can make a informed decision. Surgery being the absolute last and something I wouldn’t do unless you tried everything and experimented with stuff. This can be a good opportunity to get more familiar with your body and self and grow your awareness on many levels.

I'm a body worker by trade. Describe injuring your left knee. It's within reason that your knee injury caused you to use your body differently and place weight differently. This could of of set something in your hip. Is the hip pain, pain or slight discomfort? Dull, broad, acute, pinpointable? Does the knee still feel the same or changed since 2 months ago?

Many things could be said here. For starters you could look at this from the Buddha's angle and gain a great deal of understanding, growth and balance. But this is just one angle on the matter so to say. Suffering is also not a problem with a root, and in fact is a source of growth so to say and isn't a inherent problem. Another interesting angle is, There is no root cause of suffering. That's a to simplistic way of "thinking your looking at a real subject". It may seem like there is something called "suffering", and that it has a root cause or that all sufferings come from a particular source. But again, try your best to poll enough people/things to see what suffering is to them. You'll soon find out that no one agrees, leaving you with a word in your head that has no objective agreed on meaning, and there for no meaning to the word "suffering". This may lead to a better asking of the question such as, why does the feeling of stuff that that doesn't feel good sometimes happen..... A lot less charged of a question without so much spiritual and intellectual human baggage or human sensitivity to it, no? And perhaps less interesting to even ask or find out when phrased this way.... maybe it just does sometimes happen, like water splashes when splashed. All that said, sometimes its best just to feel the suffering you feel like is there or is majorly impacting you and feel it and really just know, understand, and feel the pain, and at other times, its just imaginary hilarious bullshit that wastes ones time.... Again, not a simple subject.

Stole this one.... on the subject matter of realizing you don't have free will. You seem to be under the impression that a person who truly recognises the absence of free will would behave differently. Why would that be the case? You're a human being, so naturally you're going to do all the typical things a human being does like get mad, feel regrets etc. Even after you recognise the lack of free will, you're still a human being. Nobody acts like they have free will, because there is no such thing as 'acting like you have free will'. No one has any idea what 'acting like they have free will' is like. Consider what it would be like for a whirlpool to discover it wasn't causing itself to swirl around.. what would that change for the whirlpool? Would it suddenly stop swirling? Of course not.

@roopepa lol ya. I think the forum had to be rolled back due to some error. I had told ya that when you forget about what you realized (if you do), to return to this thread as a reminder to remember, thought, ego, mind, are just ‘seems’ to be happening, not fundamentally so.

Just as much a story as a “no one there, just energy happening.” this is just a fun pointer story video video to possibly help the mind relax. But ultimately saying something is never going to be exact and saying nothing as a statement to say something about what is, or statements such as just silence is it, or experiencing without words is it, or no knower to know or speak about anything, is going to fall short to. And yet something rather then nothing miraculously IS, no?

Communication is a play of words, and as such this video was just as much. And as such this was kinda play on the whole which came first "chicken or the egg". The word infinite in my usage here was less to do with possibilities being infinite and never ending, and more pointing to the implications of infinite regression and how it would equate to a no-beginning, no-current, no-end scenario, which is very much the implications of Eternal. And this kinda gets to the logical proposition I was making that when you regress back Everything, even your ideas of what you think light is, numbers are, time is, eyes are, cognition is, brain is, *and yes this is a thought experiment* you can come to the realization that either.... A. Infinite regression will happen infinitely if you believe there is not a Fundamental/Eternal source, thus becoming a Eternal of sorts, a no beginning, and thus perhaps a no current, or a no future. And yes I mean anything you think is a "anything" or a "nothing" and ask well where did that come from..... Because again what is something if its never made from something to start, that never begins or began. The so called you and I material world would by definition be such in that case. B. Or you come to a conclusion that a Absolute Always Present has Eternally always been in which is the Source of the "chicken or the egg". And since time, matter, space, experience, phenomenon, all arose from and thus as this Source, you could see how this Source is not defined or limited in time, or space, or matter, or space, or experience, or phenomenon... Very much similar to A. in that there is no beginning, current, or end, since fundamentally all is Source which is a Infinite of sorts...... Again the the so called you and I material world would by definition be such in that case. Now the most important part of the video's intention is the mysterious phenomenon that can happen when it dawns on you that if either one of these is true, which is the proposition, then this has immediate connection to you and what you think you are right now.... since well, you'd have to be that suchness reading, this, feeling like your human, thinking what you think, debating what you debate.... as a no beginning, no current, no future some something.... a mystery of sorts. The very fabric of your being would literally have no foundation of its own since there is no material/energetic/time based/space based/dimension based source, since in either A or B the fundamentalness of what you may call your hand isn't fundamentally made up of a beginning "thing" because A or B are literally no-things. But your right, what seems to be a mind, can get rather confusing and argumentative.

@Alan Reji Hahaha, I need a band and a group of students behind me jamming it up with every truth bomb dropped.

If you wanted to learn programming, and you went to a school to learn, and they started giving you some pointers on how to or look into doing it, and you said, no wait, I read somewhere its something like this and looks like this, not what I think your saying. The teacher then trys to understand your confusions and meet you where your at, and you continue to say no, thats not it, no its like this, no I dont think we understand eachother, no I think your the one who is wrong here and its your own lack of this or that, that is going on. The teacher patiently trys to understand your struggles, still attempts to find common ground, and then you the student are like, ya I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I think you don't either. Finally the teacher says, well I think whats best for you then is to find someone you understand and trust because your not learning, and what you want is to learn. The student then says hey man why so defensive, I'm just here to learn, why so angry. How do you think this would come across or feel for the teacher or those trying to help you..... One responsibility of the Mods here is to remove people who are not open to learning, if it seems that way over time you will be banned. That said, it doesn't mean it will happen in one swoop. Just laying out the rules of the forum. And Leo is getting stricter on this and also willing to ban people who do not get the basis of his underlying teaching nor are willing to look into it. He has no need to argue about what he's seen, and if you dont agree or see different, that is fine, no harm no foul, just go to where you see eye to eye and feel like learning from. Its becoming my experience that you seem to want to argue about stuff that you even admit you don't know, but have read, and this doesn't make sense. Sure I'm all for arguing about experience, but your arguing over the experience you think others wiser than you experienced, and it seems off. Leo and I as well, just want you to get some experience first, then by all means, lets debate and reflect off that....

Look man, you've already said you didn't know this stuff and are just hypothesizing. You also repeatedly said something, I agreed 100% with it and that its the same thing that Leo and I are pointing to, yet you still seem to think its not. Again, you consistently say you don't know this stuff, but when you do, you'll prove your right. You now make claims "a being who's Done with a capital D doesn't say stuff like 'I don't know'". Like, what are you talking about, how do you know, this is just pulling stuff out of your ass and saying it would be this way because you think its so, not because it is so. Fine you don't believe Leo or I are awakened or to a degree that can understand where your coming from, then go somewhere else. This is arrogant madness on your part, being one who admits they don't know the truth, have read some stuff, who say they want to find out and then argue with people who make claims to understand this stuff, that they are wrong. Go somewhere else, find someone who talks your lingo you trust, and stop wasting Leo and the forum and my time..... Either open up to learning and introspecting, or be banned (for your own good really, so you can find out whats behind JOURNEY INCOMPLETE). Its in your hands man and I just hope you find what your looking for, but don't waste our time if its not the place your open to learning.

@tatsumaru Ya what Leo said. You've admitted your not aware of this stuff, just a "intuitive" belief. Its not in good form to try and argue something out of a book. Once you "see", it will be much different then the words your trying to spout off as knowledge. Hell it may even be a process, and if each 'step' along the process you reject your experience because its different then the words of these books you say is the only way to 'see' or know the world, you may forever be in this rejection searching proving others wrong loop.

Great maybe you can enjoy a beer or smoke with us common folk sometime.

It’s possible. Science is becoming hip to the healing effects of a divine experience through certain psychedelics. No reason why divine experience outside of psychedelics couldn’t happen as well. It certainly does in my experience both from using and none using. The how and the reproducing of such is a little more of a mystery. I imagine there will be some interesting science on this stuff 100-1000 years from now, if we don’t destroy a great deal of ourselves and the planet by then.

Guess what, your fucking right. And you know what that means. Your home. Tada... This is the only actual thing. Not as a form not as a emptiness. There was never duality to begin with, solid was never solid to begin with to assume and work out solid not being real so that source could be found. Same with emptiness. Its just always been, its only ever been the actual thing, an experience which seemed to be solid, seemed to be empty, seemed to have a god, or a source, or a none, source. Im about to release a video tomorrow which talks about this, in which maybe it will help. You see, no matter what the actual case is, even if you havent seen it, no matter what it is, it has to be what seems to be going on? right now, right? Cause if it IS, this couldn't be anything other then what the unknown thing is. yes you don't know it, but simply what ever IS, has to be ISing now, what ever that is, its so stupidly funny.

Ya, but there are lots including Leo and I who are saying what your saying. There is no globe, or photons, theres just the one looking you could say, but when this is understood, globe, photons are very interesting as a experience. Whats this looker, looking at? Other stuff not it? NO! An experience of what, of YOU of course. Photons have never been photons, globe has never been globe. You see at this point even to say no globe, or photons, is a rejection of "You". The looker is the globe, the looker is the photons, the photons are the looker (because photos are the looker), the globe is the looker (because the looker is the globe). Its, Now, Is, All, you, You, i, I. Do you really think there is a separate looker watching a separate movie reel, this sounds like duality no?

You really think a typed response will give you that? That aside, its been said that there's always been a back and forth, perhaps one up man-ship between Hindu and Buddhism, with debates going back and forth for hundreds of years. Humans love this stuff, even if Hindu's meant the same thing with the Great Brahnma as Buddha meant with a place of no foothold. Buddha's text and Hindu texts are unknown to be a direct source of what the original awakeners have said, but a mishmash of human individuals over time adding and subtracting and reediting and reevaluating the intent of each word, saying and implication. Again, maybe your to emeshed in the jargon, which is not a bad thing, but it may take more effort to unravel then just seeking out someone who you regard as more awake then you and perhaps to the degree you think these pointers mean, and listen to their advice without hesitation. See the fundamental difference that "i think" you are getting hooked up is a notion that there is wholeness devoid of stuff its not. Like some sort of non-ness that is surrounded by "other stuff", perhaps "false stuff". And perhaps in this non-ness/wholeness, it will be the Truth of what is, and from this location, whats not will be seen and perhaps could be felt is Above this other "false stuff". You see what Leo and I have been pointing to is that the neither empty nor form (or could equally be said, form is emptiness and emptiness is form) is The Case Right Now. Now. Now. Now. All the stuff you call, or called senses, have never been senses. All the "other" people and locations, were never the inherent case to begin with, Its always been neither empty nor form. You, hahaha, never was form or empty. Full stop.

@tatsumaru You don't see it, but what you are looking for is the same as that which Leo and I (and probably others on this forum) are trying to point you towards. It just seems like your interpretations of your lineages pointers and language is seeing our words in a way that means one thing to your lineage and is meaning another to us and as such you think and interpret random things. Thats why it just may be best to seek out someone you regard as more awake on these matters then yourself, who speaks the same lingo, it just may be easier for what you seek. Your last long story about the monk is a story pointing out obstacles that may arise along the path of finding "Truth". I disagree with none of it. But that doesn't mean it means something useful for everyone looking for the Truth. It may be a story with pointers that are just causing you confusion and as such, the story and pointers are a barrier, a mental story to get lost in, to forever be on the path with. I don't know honestly.

Sounds like your in the wrong forum then. This is all a lineage thing and it sounds like to me your very much in it. As such it just may be your path at this time and it would be best to seek out someone who you considered awake in such matters and to follow their guidance. Correct me if I'm wrong in such thinking, but do you think you are learning much here or just telling others they are not seeing it "your lineages" way.

I feel like the pot is calling the kettle black here. "Because I am not interested in assuming what is as much as letting go of what it is not." So you think wholeness already, is full of stuff called "what is not".

@tatsumaru Oh ya I have, but why not also try entertaining the idea that there's not, no joke, try it.

Very wise, however don't get lost in "your beliefs" of what others intentions are, or lost in the ideas and labels of your own. Like I said, its all the same in the end and even now. What you perceive as wrong framing and idea's in others, while believing your correct framing is actually just a mental game, they are all idea's in the end, and even now. When you see this, you will have a great laugh.

@tatsumaru Also the notion that there are 6 sense is still belief, its not direct experience and that the black hole experience you speak of is just metaphorically so, words right, to empty ones mind is to let go of the concepts of experience, including labels of so called 6 sense and beliefs about them and the knower of them. Also If eternal mind is empty then now is empty mind..... hmmm

@tatsumaru Also don't narrow down Love/Bliss/Ecstacy to human emotion sense categories. This would be a mistake so to say

@tatsumaru What your calling wholeness is the same as what Leo is referring to as Oneness, so in that sense your debating semantics. There's still a lot you don't understand and I think shin may be pointing some of that. Love/Bliss/Ecstacy of its own accord may be one of those things which you have not awakened much or at all to. The emptying of mind is to see the lack of opposites, its just another way of understanding such. There are perhaps infinite paths to understanding this stuff so to say, don't get to caught up in your lineage. It may even be wise to be open minded, drop what you've learned and take a dive into other "paths", experiment, it could be just what you need to round out awakening.