Misagh

This is perhaps the most difficult type of witnessing. Everybody can remember a time when they did not hold a certain belief or feel a certain way, and yet they existed, but not many can detach from the body in the same manner. For others how have, how have you managed to do it?

@Toby ""self realization" and even "unity consciousness" is still "I Am" for him." This doesn't make much sense to me I do know that most people mistake "I Am" with self-realization. It is not so because there is still duality between a subtle ego who has realized its own nature of illusion, yet is unable to let go and merge completely. Conversely, this stage is called "turia" in the scriptures. Very difficult to transcend with the help of a guru.

@Toby I see what you mean. I've been very receptive towards Kundalini and Enlightenment in general. Have been unconsciously so since childhood. Jan Esman and Ramana Maharshi have been specially instrumental in my case so I do post them a lot. Haven't met Jan Esman yet, but I do plan to eventually.

Yes but pay attention to the subtlety of what is being said. Of course, this could be a failure of language. Not being a native speaker, I might be misunderstanding you. However, the "I" who is saying that he is "nothing" is still an "I". It's very subtle identification with the body/mind etc. This is why I say the "feeling" of being an "I" has to go. And this has to be permanent.

Here's a quick diagram I made that might be useful. Most confuse the I Am state with self realization. This is not the case. For the Self to be realized, the "I-ness" has to go.

As long as there's a sense/feeling of "I-ness", self-realization has not occurred.

@Shin About his avatar, he was talking.

@cetus56 I am little confused when you say "I place a witness". But if you are having OBEs then you are good to go.

@fabriciom Detachment from the body is ultimately detachment from the energy field that surrounds and permeates the body. Of course most people don't have a good sense of this energy field. Whether you can or cannot determines the path your should take. If you can then surrender to the divine. If you can't, then inquire into your nature. Regardless, once you are firmly grounded in the sense of "I am-ness" realize that this is not enlightenment. The sense of being an "I" needs to go entirely.

I understand now. No there are more than one method. Mine is Kundalini, but that is not the path for everyone. I am asking for others to share their methods.

@fabriciom Why did you assume that I haven't?

@fabriciom This post is meant to congregate the methods and practices of the several self-realized people who are active on this forum The mind is the cause for ignorance. The best way to self-realize is to surrender to the divine. However that is outside the experience/ability of most. I thought asking for the other methods could help others who might be at this stage of witnessing.

@zoey101 I do feel that this is more of an issue in the west. For me this was never a problem. Detachment from the ego was very simple. I will recommend you a book called Words of Grace by Sri Ramana Maharshi. It is a wonderful book and incredibly to the point. Sat Cit Ananda

@Devil Can you summarize your entire point in one sentence pls?

@Toby No I have never asked him that question. The only confirmation I've asked of him was for my Kundalini (whether what I was experiencing was Kundalini or not), which he answered 'yes' and that was the end of my correspondence with him. Why do you ask if I may?

@Nahm Well i don't know what book you are writing, but a good books sums up its central point in its first paragraph

I was suicidal at one point in my life. I now realize that was the ego wanting to get rid of itself for the self to shine through.

@Aethereus Words of Grace by Sri Ramana Maharshi will probably get you there.

@Aethereus honestly this guy is beyond psychoanalysis. He's about to self-realize, and I don't think he can do anything to stop it.

@Buba I edited my last post to give more insight so read that. And the whole point is for you (ego) to cease functioning, and surrendering to the real You (the self). Not gonna lie. It will feel like dying. Like actually dying. But if you just let go, death is bliss. This is all the advice I can give you: Let go.

@Buba What you are experiencing is the dark night of the mind, not the dark night of the soul. Trying to escape what you feel is exactly what causes some people to be stuck in it for years. Edit - Dark night of the mind is when you are miserable because you realize how everything is an illusion. The fix for this is to inquire into the nature of the "I" who is being miserable and find that to be null as well. Once you get over this all form of "I-ness" is rid from your existence and you self-realize. Dark Night of the Soul is when you see the divine in everything BUT yourself. It's the final obstacle for transcending god-consciousness. It's much rarer and not at all what you are experiencing.

Clarity in the author's thought, translated into clarity in writing.

@Mikael89 This is great. The purpose of inquiry is to get abide as the witness. Regardless, if you really can remain as the witness for a prolonged time, then you should inquire into the witness itself. Who is it that is aware of the witness? The witness is the last defense of the ego.

Before self-realization I was an easily irritable person. The slightest thing in a person could anger and upset me. Nowadays I look at others with the eye of a loving father who is deeply interested in his children, and wants to learn all about their specificities/personalities. And it doesn't matter how good or bad his children behave. They could be the worst of humanity. When the boundaries between "I" and the rest of the world breaks, one no longer can genuinely get angry. Anger may arise a few times, but upon not being fed it quickly dies, and never rises again. I wrote this because I saw a post where someone talked about how easy they are to anger. I wanted to communicate the point that never in my development journey did I actually work on my anger issues. This change wasn't a product of psychoanalysis etc. Like how the Bhagavan says: when you are asked to take out the trash, you take out the trash. You don't sift through the bag, examining each individual piece. Sat Cit Ananda