Misagh

There is no duality between the seer and the seen. I don't really understand the rest of your writing.

@Robert Mhmm. Spiral dynamics is a model for enlightenment in a sense. Stages after turquoise cannot be achieved w/o enlightenment. Also I am not spreading ANY information regarding spiral dyanmics (on the contrary, i'm asking for this information) and I certainly am not spreading false information about enlightenment.

@xbcc What is free will? The freedom to act spontaneously. Who is the actor? It can't be found. If so wherefore the acting arises? It arises by its own out of the Self, that unknowable who is pure potential energy. It comes forth as dynamic creative energy, which is the one and the same as the Self. You = the Self Therefore you have free will.

@Sven I don't know what you should do or what you shouldn't, but Alan Watts died because of his alcoholism.

@Tistepiste This body is 23 years old.

@yawning_ Thing is my dude, stuff happens when within samadhi. Gems are seen and doors are opened, figures approach you and share their truths. Sometimes they merge with you and sometimes they don't. So yes, things can be said about samadhi. I am strictly speaking about higher states of enlightenment. Of course many neo-advaitans tell me that once you are self-realize, there is nothing more to it. They vehemently reject the notion that there are stages to enlightenment and that there is more to it than just void. I'd say in response that unless you are living in bliss, then you haven't gotten the full package yet. If all you have is void, then you have seen Shiva but not the Shakti. My question to all of you is this: Do you wake up in the middle of the night as your true self, in a dreamless void, brimming with bliss? Have you had all your identification mechanisms utterly crushed, so utterly that someone had to tell you what your name was? Can you follow the trail of your memory to ages past? These are all achievable. So when I ask what is after turquoise, what I meant was at what level of enlightenment does it end and coral begin? Self-realization? God-Consciousness? Shiva Consciousness? Moksha?

"Is the big bang real?" Maybe. Scientists seem to think so. "Did the big bang create the universe?" Maybe. Scientists seem to think so. But then you gotta ask yourself, where did the big bang come from in the first place? Everything comes forth from nothing. That nothingness is you.

This is how the mind works after self-realization: Once you become a permanent witness to the mind, it begins to operate at a more subtle level. You no longer verbalize thoughts. Your thinking process becomes much faster as concepts are finally allowed to flow as they like. I will answer any questions you might have about the mind both pre- and post-self realization.

I wrote a short primer about Siddha Yoga (the context in which these phrases make sense) here: check it out if interested.

I thought I write this because its helpful to those of you here who have active Kundalini but not much knowledge about it: Short Description: Siddha Yoga is the Kundalini Path of enlightenment. Kundalini is divine energy which has manifested and upholds your current state of ignorance. In Siddha Yoga, truth or reality is described as having two aspects (which really are the same) known as Shiva, which is unmanifest potential (often described as pure void), and Shiva, dynamic creative energy which manifests the world within/from/as Shiva). Now after manifesting an individual, the Shakti resides as Kundalini within the body and lies dormant. In special cases, whether through divine grace, or the grace of a guru, the Kundalini can become active. It then works within your system and rewires it so your body can uphold higher and higher states of enlightenment. It will eventually leave its resting place at the base of the spine, reaches the top of the head, and merges with Shiva. The state of enlightenment is described as Sat (being-ness), Cit (Consciousness), Ananda (Bliss). Stages of enlightenment There are several stages of enlightenment (Consciousness) within this model: Ignorant - Self-explanatory Awakened - A person who has "awoken" to the spiritual path, and has begun to question the nature of reality (his own nature). Turyia - A transitory stage before self-realization. The person has begun to seriously doubt and dis-identify with the ego, but is helpless in doing so thanks to subtle identification mechanisms that have not been crushed yet. Dark night (or years) of the mind often happens right before/at this stage as the mind frantically search to find its true nature but cannot come up with an answer. Self-realized - He who has lost all identification with the body/mind/emotions/ego and moreover has lost the identification mechanisms bring about ignorance. God-Consciousness - The person begins to see the divine in everything around him but himself. He has achieved non-duality within, but there is still a duality between him and the outside world. The dark night (or years) of the soul begin here as the person sees (projects) god in everything but himself, and this makes him miserable). Unity Consciousness - The person unity between the inner and the outer. Duality stops here. Shiva Consciousness - Happens within Blue Consciousness where the individual soul merges with the blue being (Krishna, Mary, Jesus etc.) Practices A seeker in the Siddha Yoga path uses many methods to assist him. He can receive Shaktipat to arouse Kundalini. He can use self-inquiry to silence the mind. He can contemplate the nature of god as Sat, Cit, Ananda (which is called Dhyana, the true form of meditation). He can use kriyas and pranayamas to arouse more and more shakti within him.

@Nahm Beyond basic self-realization there are god consciousness, Unity consciousness, Blue consciousness, Shiva consciousness and perhaps many more. I simply want to know how these stages (as they are known in Siddha Yoga) relate to stages as denote by spiral dyanmics (which granted I don't fully know). Does spiral dynamics simply group these up and put them in turquoise? What exactly is coral and why do you say its unattainable? There are people who are at an incredibly high level of enlightenment currently alive (for example Shri Anandi Ma who is at Shiva consciousness).

@DrewNows Shaktipath is when a fully enlightened master transfers some of his divine energy to you to activate your Kundalini (which is the divine energy currently upholding your state of ignorance.) which in turn grants you very high states of enlightenment. This is the siddha yoga path of enlightenment.

@DrewNows Then what you need is surrender. Surrender to the truth, to god, to shakti, to fear. Just let go. There is no other instruction. Unless u get shaktipath.

i've heard form some people who do mushrooms/cacti saying that they consider them to be a feminine divine being that they enter into a relationship with and it grants them enlightenment. Kinda like shakti really.

@DrewNows Self realization: Abidance in the self without identification with an ego. This is where the identification mechanisms that cause you to identify as an "I" (I-ness) has been crushed. Turiya: A transitory state where you have seen the illusion of the ego, but can't help identifying with it because there are subtle identification mechanisms within you that need to go away. Awakened: You have begun to question reality. Ignorat: welp stage.

First question: Is this question coming from Before or after basic self-realization? Second question: Being a witness to the mind, it does not matter whether the mind is busy or quiet. It does its own thing and if I need it then I bother with it. Granted, nowadays the mind is mostly silent until I chose to use it. If you want a good method to control the mind, consider some pranayamas. Curiously, the source of the mind is the same as the breath (they both originate from the heart and are verbalized in the throat). So when you control your breath, you simultaneously control the mind. Although, self-realization is the best method to finally reign-in the mind, since if silenced only through breath control, the mind will probably return when you stop controlling the breath.

@Preetom Not really no. I had never fully accepted the illusion of being an ego. I always had this sense within me that there was so much more to the truth than I was realizing. So when it finally dawned on me, it wasn't as big of a shock as many people experience. There was a "Oh okay, I always knew this but chose to ignore it." sort of situation. Also I probably was very close to self-realization in a past life (or even had achieved it in the moment of death) considering the events of my current life.

@Barry J I have been seeking from the moment I was born. I remember entering this body (as an infant) and making it my home. I forgot my true self. And I have been unconsciousness seeking for it ever since. Nowadays I have self-realized but it never stops deepening. I don't think it ever will either.

@Ingit Let go of the mind. The mind is a tool. You made it! For you! Use it! Don't let it use you! If you want to build a skyscraper or write piece of code or a book, by all means, use the mind! But Realize your true nature! Look at a rock and see yourself in it. Remember your ancient past... it's easy to do! See all those lives flashing before you. Look deep into your memory... those foreign ones which you can't just make any sense out of. Those might be from your past lives! The answers are all in front of you. You are GOD. You are the omniscience. You are the omnipotence. And I am not just saying this. You really are! Realize yourself! See yourself! But be careful not to end up instead with an inflated ego. You would be missing the point then.

Eckhart is fine, but people get stuck in the present moment of doing instead of the present moment of being.

@Lorcan Yes i understand what you say now. And the answer is no. This is what all religions try to do and fail miserably at it. Can't force the truth. The soul has to be ripe.

@Lorcan I read your post and I didn't understand anything.

Thank you. This was a very well worded response. Specially this part: "No words or language necessary."

Another thing: This sentence shows that you experience duality between you and the outside world. Sure you might have self-realized and achieved non-duality within, but enlightenment doesn't end there. Later comes god consciousness, and after that unity consciousness where you will truly realize nonduality between the inner and the outer. Remember what christ said: When you make the inner as the outer and the outer as the inner, there you shall find me.

Even Leo knows this. The shakti speaks within him: retire. Leave this business. Come and live forever in bliss. When will he listen, I don't know.