bejapuskas

Maybe low value men don't care, stop projecting your insecurities outwards, it is ruining your life like a cancer. Your world-view is not objective. You'd be better of opening up and working on your butt-hurtness.

I think a guy can be very nice and also not sexually repressed. One should get out of relationships that are not sexually compatible, pushing is not good. Nothing wrong about that.

Do you guys think constantly having weird people you would not date spamming your PMs is a privilege? I mean maybe to some extent, but you guys look at it way too simplistically...

Not knowing what they are can still lead to hurting others. If you just assume somebody was not raped and you victim blame in front of them... Isn't that kinda not nice? This is actually an interesting topic, some people might have horrible self esteem issues and their life situation might be so bad and out of control that they simply have to escape somewhere and postpone the work for better times, sometimes addictions keep people alive. That's another way to look at it.

I guess you need to find nice, caring, sensitive friends who choose to face their suffering head-on without escaping it through drugs, the kinds that are there for others, that are reliable. There are people like that, but if you have spent so many years building a circle of friends that looks somehow, sometimes it is necessary to leave.

I don't think it is the niceness that is a turn-off. It is just that so many of these nice guys are manipulative and they have some sort of expectation about what all girls want and they are doing that. That's so much worse than attentively listening to the individual's wants and needs, people have both of these different, even if they all are a part of one gender. "Niceness" can be very manipulative. Neediness is same, if you need something, it is like a part of your survival and if you need sex, you would even push for it and that's a huge turn-off. Often these "nice" guys have some sort of sexual shame and shadow in their sexual parts of their minds, so they might push for it but deny it. Wanting on the other hand is not bound by any obstacles, it can just wait for the right moment. Wanting is not a part of a violent agenda.

@StarStruck I mean if the girl is sexually open enough, you can be nice to her, you don't need to play all sorts of games. Just don't push her into having sex if she doesn't want it at the moment and show that you care about her pleasure the same way you care about yours. You are absolutely free to think "I would not date somebody if they wouldn't have sex with me." I also would not, that's a valid expectation, just don't expect it from people who don't wanna give you. I mean, of course there is room for growth, but at one point of development, it stops being about you and it starts being about other people either being up for what you want or not being up for. Don't judge yourself for wanting explicitly consensual wild intimate sex. Your sexuality is completely fine. I am curious about this playing with different paradigms, are you actually playing or is there still hurtness? I would love if you could give us more insight into that. I find that sometimes people are playing because they are still judging themselves or afraid of judgement.

@Axiomatic You don't need to be like inhumanly cautious, just know her background, ask about potential trauma triggers, have extensive conversations outside of the bedroom too. This is not a drag. It will improve your experience too, you will get to know each other better. It just really is not that worth it man if you don't communicate. If you asked, you would not be saying nonsense such as nobody really cares to explain, have some patience. When somebody was raped in the past, it takes them time to open up. It is not just easy for them. If you don't have any patience and do not care to communicate, you might think these people are playing with you or being impossible to date when they are really not. Sure, some people just are not sexually open, but you should just not force it. I mean sure, these incidents happen, but like most cases can be prevented and you do not need supernatural compassion or mind reading skills to do it. It should be obvious that you need to communicate in such matters, women are not objects for you to just use without talking to them. People are not logical, you also are not logical in many ways. You need to treat this on person by person basis. There is no one guide for all people.

@Axiomatic I totally feel for you man, I have also been mistreated by women. Feminism is not one thing, apparently, there are certain kinds of feminisms that do not include transgender women and similar oppressive ideologies. Just understand feminism is advocating for the equality of all sexes and genders, like equalism. Anything other than that is not feminism in my opinion. You don't need to believe that women and men are the same, but they should have equal rights, which they do not, especially in countries like India, where Preety is coming from. Feminism is so useful, you just cannot see it because you are probably privileged to live in the West. And I mean that is not your fault where you were born and what you were exposed to. But the reality is, still some members on this forum get offended when women share stories of rape and sexual assault and it is not just on this forum. It is kind of absurd, when somebody tells you about their issue and you say: "But I have issues also." That's just completely missing the point. Having a conversation, comparing your issues and seeing whether there is a solution is a better way than projecting and getting offended. Being mistreated by an individual is not an excuse for denying the reality or wishing less rights onto an entire big group of people. Although I get the fear, oftentimes women start fearing all men because of one or more incidents of rape, that's how fear works. But the women here have so far been very open so use this space to discuss what bothers you, open up man.

@Axiomatic It's ok. Do you see now how you can be fighting for both male and female rights at the same time? I honestly think the inequality appears when there are toxic beliefs in both. They are supposed to somehow favor men from a very less spirally developed perspective (manipulation of power etc.) but they do not really do that, we are way beyond that point. This thread is focused on understanding women, of course you can talk about understanding men, it is interconnected, but you don't need to "choose a side". I think being on both sides at the same time is the best, acknowledging everything fairly.

No need to act more alpha. Throw that idea away. I agree that oftentimes women are afraid to say no, because they are afraid that if they do not please their partner, that they might leave them. And I understand this is frustrating for you just as it is to her. I think this fear originates in the structure of society where people are not educated about female pleasure, when somebod says sex, people think penetration. I am not saying penetration is not enjoyable, but sex is much more than that. She might be doing this because she wants you to please her, so she is trying her best to please you. It is a low self-esteem behavior, but that's what I see in it. I understand that you do not want to put anyone into this position. Clear communication from your side is needed, don't always try to read the signs, have an open conversation. You can give a very good and confident impression if you do this well and it is not hard. Make it clear that you value her pleasue just as much as you value yours. Tell her that if she does not feel like it, she should not say yes to you. You might think this will make you frustrated, because women are less horny, but by not being pushy, you make them more sexually attracted to you. So it is in fact a win-win solution, both sides benefit from it. But if you or her feel like OH YES 100 %, that is not consent. Think of it this way, if you have a flu and you are vomitting everyday, your sex drive drops drastically. You simply don't want a woman to be seducing you when you feel like shit, isn't it so. Or if you are straight, think of a guy seducing you. You might not hate gay people, but you simply don't want to engage in gay sex. Trust me, if you have sex when both parties want it whole-heartedly, it's gonna be so much better than borderline rape experience. Being romantically interested in friends is not wrong, if you do not manipulate them. If you use their trust in order to rape them or sexually assault them, that is wrong. Consider that attractive women might constantly be losing people who they consider friends, because they have to friendzone them. Or they feel like they cannot be anyone's friends because of their looks/personality whatever... Maybe if you think low of yourself, you might not be able to relate to this, but it is very frustrating when it happens to you over and over. @Axiomatic You don't seem like a bad guy to me at all, no need to be offended by women trying to be understood. You are doing the exact same.

@Consept Oh sorry. @OctagonOctopus Interesting indeed.

@Peter Miklis It indeed does. Its fine we should respect it and educate one another. @Windappreciator I almost feel like replying to your weaboo post in Japanese but I should also not break the guidelines as a mod.

@thisintegrated @captainamerica Thank you guys. <3 Life is indeed a joke lmao. I think there was a misunderstanding. You were talking more generally in the context of devils generally fearing understanding. I was talking more about in the space of this thread and even this forum where people demonize green and often misidentify themselves with higher stages in order to gain short term feelings of selfish happiness and false social status and authority. I agree that SD is often not enough. And thanks for recognizing that I care about these topics. I am trying to build a more inviting culture here on this forum so that people can learn more deeply and feel more safe. @Consept I think some aspects of green are opposite of what you are describing. If we go back to gender again, stage Blue thinks "nature" disproves transgenderism and non-binary and LGBT in general, when green finds examples when this is natural. All these gender expectations that affect almost everyones life negatively in some way or the other are you might say natural, because men being strong, therefore provider in ape ages etc. but green actually says this doesnt benefit us anymore lets do better. And lower stages call it toxic, because they dont understand that patriarchy and feminism doesnt mean blaming men, but its like fighting against ideas that affect everyone negatively. Also green doesnt demonize everything men made, art is also men made. And stages below overlook the fact that corporations discriminate and enslave. All these issues you listed seem to be more typical for lower stages. I am still waiting for more examples of actual toxic green.

@captainamerica Yes but on this forum its mostly women and queer people who understand what feminism is. So many members still get triggered by people fighting for their rights even when they share vulnerable stories. These users are too butt-hurt to go into the maze of understanding the bad side of something they demonize. And even among like my more evolved guy friends, they dont realize how huge of an issue gender equality is world-wide, because of privilege. I actually maybe understand what you were trying to say. I guess the toxic and the healthy sides need to be presented simultaneously and one needs to be self-reflective enough in order for learning to take place. I guess I was triggered by the fact that there is a thread about toxic Green on a forum where so many people have Green shadow and fail to embody caring and compassion. But I dont have issues if somebody tells somebody like you know, I dont think you understand feminism. You are right that misandry is wrong, but it does not even fit into the definition of feminism...

@captainamerica Oh yeah I guess there were such people. Self-proclaimed Yellow on this forum is also a huge issue. I don't know about Turquoise, maybe I am happy about what is happening with stage Green in some countries. But still I don't think it is prominent enough to like be demonized and shit, I think there is much more the average Joe can learn from Green at this point. Sure, PM me, I am grateful for all these conversations between 4 eyes. @OctagonOctopus Oh yes I see what you mean there. I think it is often a matter of personal experience that helps you understand a system or a mechanism. For example a white person might have issue seeing how much systemic rasism affects people, because it just flies above their heads. And many people even become offended by it, because they think it is something obsolete or useless that just triggers people and does not really help. While that's not really true, the Green perspective perceives these ignorant white people as like inherently or intentionally evil, when they might totally seem like it because of indoctrination and biased education, but not be it. It takes a lot of emotional work, effort and pain to transition from Green to Yellow. For example on this forum we have some of these people who victim blame and slut shame and I guess a user who is a rape victim would have a hard time talking to them. So maybe in this sense they might be ignorant, but they are in a completely justified place of hurtness too and they might be very understanding in other aspects of life when they do have the dual experience. I usually relate to these users, because I used to be an incel, but then I also kind of transcended that through Green.

@captainamerica I think I get you, your words just became paradoxical for a while Could you go more in-depth on these two points? They sound interesting to discuss here.

Projecting happens in every stage, more so in Orange, Blue and below. What is so specific for Green? What Green topics are impersonal?

@Windappreciator I also did not understand. What it police mind transcendence?

@Snader Thank you so much, this really means a lot! <3 I am still waiting for examples of toxic Green from the OP. I am curious how our individual understandings of what Green is are different. There are many people here, coming from different backgrounds, paths, states of consciousness, it is really a pitty that we are discussing something so complex without defining it first. It is really disturbing. What do you find impossible to discuss with stage Green people? I agree with you that new technology is needed. For example there are people working on public toilets in 3rd world countries that can transform shit into drinkable water. That would easily be one of the most useful inventions and also very stage Green. Have you considered any arguments against worshipping corporations and blindly falling for the illusions of capitalism? Buying clothes in HnM, looking at the pictures of pretty child models, without knowing that the clothes you are looking at were made by enslaved kids in India and Bangladesh. In our system, it is basically impossible to ethically consume almost anything, so targetting the moral codes of corporations in order to stop them from neo-colonialism and slavery might actually be the more spirally evolved than living by example... Of course, do both, but like if most companies are immoral, you literally can't make a significant change without targetting companies. I also think in today's world most hierarchies are too hierarchical. What do you think is an example of a hierarchy that's too flattened? For example in education, kids rarely feel safe to question their teachers and if they feel like what they are learning is useless (it mostly is), they are told it is a part of the syllabus (that's organized in a useless way) and they cannot do anything. On this forum as well, some people are afraid of the moderators. What do you mean by College Green?

@Gabith I guess they might be blocked, but certainly not all people. You can see people squirting in porn. @KaRzual I guess all people are different. @Peter Miklis Yes, it is partially their responsibility, but their partner can help them overcome this sexual shame by dirty talk which Leo mentions in his video. If you dont do that, you shouldnt be surprised if she doesnt even get off. Female pleasure is neglected and some cultures systematically get rid of female pleasure psychologically and physically. This also has the side effect of there being certain blocks. I was trying to show a different view on physical strength, macho-ness and a different value system by what I posted before.

Your arms just need to be strong enough to make her orgasm and squirt. That already pushes you above the crowd that does not know shit about female pleasure.

@captainamerica Of course you are not. You just made me rewatch Leo's video on Stage Green. Not the entire thing, but like 60 %, especially the part about toxic manifestations. I think my understanding has changed since the last time I watched it. I am not sure whether Leo's understanding of Green changed since he has uploaded that video, but I must say that my understanding of it is slightly different. Leo seems to be criticizing the groupism and mob mentality of Green and calling it extrimist, polarized, trap etc. In my interpretation, I think the individuals who get triggered by Green groups, protests, movements, art etc. are a way bigger problem than the Green people themselves. They are just less loving and less developed, they judge Green from below. They might be the ones who slut shame, make racist comments, vote for a lower consciousness politician because "the Stage Green candidate is so fake"... I think these people receive too much judgement. I honestly think Green is so "weak" because it just does not have the majority. If it had power, it would not be that much of an issue. But this kind of triggering and groupism emerged with every stage - Beige serving its own benefit in a Purple group, Purple dethroning the overly ambitious Red leader, Red killing and raping Blue moralists, Blue lynching the revolutionary Orange scientist... We forget this has been an issue before and we put too much judgement on Green and resist it. This forum is below Green in my opinion. I don't know how else would a Green majority in society happen in a way different from groupism, nothing can work individually. You can't have Green policies as a Green individual in a Red society. You need most people to subscribe, dethrone, vote (if you live in a democracy). I see groupism as a hope for a better future. I mean, if you are the more developed one but the stupidity of society triggers you, you need a group in order to not burn out, no? Isn't that how everyone feels? What if Leo has zero followers? Now I see that there are some individuals who adopt ideologies that are typically associated with Green, such as feminism, yet they are toxic. For example women who are "feminists" but judge men. They are not real feminists in my opinion, because they are not actually fighting for the equality of the sexes. I mean this is less common than the average Incel Joe thinks it is, but still, it helps to sit down with an Incel, show them that you relate to them, tell them a better truth, rather than to demonize them. I guess Yellow does this better than Green, but I don't think Yellow should be passive, I guess Leo mantioned passivity as a pitfall of Yellow. I think a balance between Green activism and Yellow overthinking is best. I honestly don't know how one could care too much for human rights on which depend many human lives. That sounds like discrimination. Of course, if you become financially independent and lead your life in a way that encourages understanding, that might leave more impact than a Green hippie who smokes weed in the park and does not have a job. But the Green fundamental values still mostly stay the same higher up the Spiral. People should have equal rights etc. But on the other hand, demonizing companies, business and materialism is not as off. For example, the US and EU bought so many vaccines for themselves that they could vaccinate their entire populations multiple times and the companies supported this, while they refused to sell these excess vaccines to "less developed" countries. This is called vaccine nationalism. Do you seriously think this is a soft issue that one can care too much about? When it literally kills millions? The development of these countries is often underestimated, they are capable of creating and distributing these vaccines, but the system fucks them. I agree with Leo that Africa, Middle East etc. need basic infrastructure before adopting higher values. Higher values are impossible without resources. (These resources are manipulated by the West or were manipulated by it in the past without the West ever repaying) How can you care for a human life when you don't have a hospital to treat them and schools to educate doctors? It is truly impossible. But in the West, society is way too Orange, people have so much infrastructure, yet their value systems suck ass. It is excess materialism that needs a bit of hippie. I agree that a society can be more developed than another society, but I think we overestimate the development of the West. For example colonizers in India intentionally did not try to free the native people from their lethal stage Purple and Red rituals (burning widows etc), because it would make it harder for them to manipulate the resources. The US killed 80 times more civillians in the Middle East than died in the Twin Towers. This excessive western pride is source of so much evil. Leo mentioned flattening hierarchies too much, but that just does not at all seem like an issue of our time. Leo's example about sensitive women staying with toxic guys can be a real example of toxic Green, also vice versa. Lying in order not to hurt is a Green issue, but also anti green at the same time because of suppressing expression. Worshipping gurus. Leo gave this example of some cultures in Scandinavia demonizing individuals who want to rise above others by utilizing their talents and taking them down as a group, that seems similar to the stage Blue in Japan. This is a serious issue, but also it is anti green because Green is supposed to be pro self-expression Bullshit spirituality - I think this coin has too sides. People with strongly developed value systems whose emotional mastery and self-knowledge sucks and then also mystics who have pride about their mystical states, for example Baba Ramdev. Baba Ramdev has amazing yoga products, but he calls untouchables in India who are protesting for their rights "terrorists". This is very toxic, because of how much influence he has. (some of these yogis have so much influence precisely because they are corrupt) I don't think identity politics is an issue. It is just the people who get triggered by it. Of course identifying with gender, sex, race etc. can hinder your spiritual progress, but so can not understanding your white privilege and thinking that colour of skin does not matter at all, that's is just so unconscious and politically undeveloped mindset. Last point - not being pragmatic enough in order to pick up oneself and try to bring about change in a systemic way - sometimes I wonder why I am spending so much time on this forum. Maybe I would be better of creating content on my own and influencing people that way rather than talking to a handful of people here on this forum and influencing only part of them. Well, I guess I might do that in the future, thanks Leo.

@integral The grains of truth in your ideas are the roots of inequality and corruption in society. We already know what happens if you entertain the points you are trying to make, it is reality and it is horrible. We understand. Especially the girls here understand these points through first hand experience, for example victim blaming, slut shaming etc... There is a need to have a strong moral foundation in a society, otherwise you would have been raped and killed long ago. You are not being profound here.

Your life is a trip. Have you done psychedelics?