Stovo

@Synnergy My point wasn't to argue that either system is better or worse, or that China has a preferable system. My point was that Western values are subjective based on culture and ego. They are not truth.

@lardplanet You misunderstand what freedom is.

Absolutely. I'd say I have a lot of yellow, but I occasionally get drawn into silly debates with conservatives which makes me think I still have a lot of green in me.

All those things are also true of China. Does China meet your 4 criteria? In-fact living in China is what destroyed my worldview that western values were universal values. That realisation caused an existential crisis. Your ego doesn't want an existential crisis, so you'll take the path of least resistance and assume what you're saying is objectively true, which of course it is not and cannot be so. Of course, we can argue in a subjective relative sense regarding what sort of society we believe is preferable, but there is no truth there.

History is full of examples of highly conscious people being "punished" by low conscious people, so that wouldn't exactly be surprising.

Before I clicked this thread I was thinking along the same lines + guns. The gun stereotype comes from a Brit's perspective though.

@Globalcollective My manager is the CEO

Recently I've been thinking about the direction I want my life to take. I live in the UK, I am 29, and I work a job on an average British wage. The money side is fine. I'd like to earn perhaps double the average wage, around £70,000 or $100,000, but any more than this and I don't think it would bring any further happiness or fulfillment. I'm a bit of a minimalist and I rarely manage to spend my entire monthly wage even now. The real question is about life purpose. My passion is in economics and finance, but most of this industry is at a stage orange level. My idea is to create an online learning platform for conscious capitalism appealing to stage green types. However, I also want to gain some employee skills too, as a backup if the business fails. For example, if I trained as a financial analyst and I was happy in that job, would I still be a wage slave? Is there any scope at all to living a fulfilling life and being an employee? Should I put all my energy into the business idea, even with the risks of failure?

Yes exactly! Same as for me. I have resigned, my last day is end of year. If I get a job then great, if not I figure I need some time to work on myself anyway Good luck on your search.

I just searched, yes it is based on the whole population. So your 57% isn't as bad as it looks at first. You're around the same as the US, but you probably have a good 75% of adults done. What happens next depends on the virus. If your hospitals start hitting capacity again, and it turns into a crisis then the government will start to mandate vaccines or coerce people into taking them through vaccine passports or other incentives.

@Globalcollective It will be hard for you to be happy in that environment if you are stage green. You will constantly be shocked at how low conscious somebody can be, and struggle to understand why they are interested in such mundane things as money, success, materialism, etc. Maybe time to cut your losses.

@DieFree I've tried that with my boss, it still doesn't get through ?

My boss is similar. He is super stage orange, even bits of blue and red, but a lot of the staff are young stage green. Staff turnover is really high as people feel alienated by it. The ironic thing is the lack of empathy and compassion towards staff results in lower performance than if he was a stage green type, because people don't feel valued and high staff turnover is causing big problems. I would guess a similar thing will happen at your place of work. More focus on performance and success at the expense of empathy and caring, which will ironically result in lower performance in the end.

It won't work. Ideally, the manager needs to go, rather than all the staff, but if he doesn't the staff will end up leaving eventually. Can it be raised to the manager's superior? Obviously, you can't mention spiral dynamics, but you could say that the manager's values aren't mixing well with everybody else, which is causing a lot of conflict.

Is that 57% of the total population or 57% of the adult population? Because most countries are not yet vaccinating children.

Firstly, you are projecting your values onto others. In subjectivity, you can state an opinion that those 4 things are necessary for a civilised society, but objectively this is not so and you will never be able to prove it objectively. Secondly, in western societies, people at higher stages tend to believe in those 4 things too. Liberals in the US usually believe in those 4 things. Conservatives think this is not true, because they are fear-based and tend to experience an ego backlash to liberal ideologies.

Just a point, on the UK, because I am from there too. It's mostly a stage orange/green society. Unlike the US we have much less blue, though it does exist, one of my relatives is stage blue. The Church of England is strongly blue, for example, and some of the most conservative rural regions are stage blue. Jacob Rees Mogg is a good example of a blue politician. UKIP & the Reform party are stage blue. Stage orange is the moderate conservatives and many moderate members of Labour and Lib Dems. It's sporadic across the country, appearing in cities, and some small towns/rural areas too. The city of London & the banking industry is basically peak stage orange. When you hear that junior bankers should be "proud" to work 100 hour weeks, to be ambitious and successful, that is stage orange in a nutshell. Boris Johnson is around orange, maybe with bits of blue in him. Stage green is the left-wing branch of Labour & Lib Dems. The SNP is mostly stage green. The Green party is stage green. London is very green, despite the obvious pockets of orange. The NHS is stage green. Jeremy Corbyn is strongly green, notice how threatening he was to stage orange and blue. I'd say Keir Starmer is green, but he's got more orange than Corbyn which actually might make him electable.

@rd5555 Passion can happen at all stages in different ways. @FlyingLotus describes this well. RE salaries, It's not necessarily a good indication of where somebody is on the spiral because spiral dynamics is a values-based system. There are stage green and stage blue people who do very well career-wise and earn good salaries. Equally, there are stage orange people who work in McDonald's and just had some bad luck in their lives. Ambition and success are traits of orange, but they do not need to necessarily have those things to be at orange, so long as they believe that that worldview is the best way of doing things.

@Endangered-EGO no we have big political divides. Brexit was like a civil war. There's just very few pro lifers here.

There is sweeping consensus. I agree that there are instances where deaths are recorded as covid deaths, which were in fact related to other causes. This is the difficulty in collecting statistics during a pandemic. However, this is more than counteracted by all the covid deaths that aren't picked up in the statistics, which you can see by the fact that excess deaths are far higher than the official covid death count in every country.

It's interesting in the US that the abortion debate is such a big political divide. In England, pro-life people aren't really a thing, if they do exist it's very marginal and they never talk about it.

F***ing hell... I don't exist

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@Johnny Galt Because I could send you videos from other "experts" saying the completely opposite thing.

Reading this thread has just caused me to have some realisations. I am contemplating it now.