EternalForest

@Charlotte They probably just bring up those topics conversationally and not with the intention of starting a debate. They may get the sense that you don't "trust" them, to even tell you the simplest of things. Personally, I would try the approach of only doing it with people that enjoy the debates. For everyone else, research and verify what they're saying in private and see if it was true or false. If it's true, there's no problem, if false, then come to them and tell them what really happened, not in a cocky way, but just to politely inform them. That way it works out for everyone. In general, always try to find "win-win" situations in life.

@ULFBERHT I agree. Although I haven't watched very many of Joe Rogan's shows (3 at most), I've noticed that although he treads on some deep topics, it's never much more than playing at surface level for a few hours. And stereotyping people on looks like he did in this clip (regardless if he's talking about Leo or not) is just uncalled for and shows that he hasn't learned much humility from all his "deep" conversations.

I'd he happy to join you guys next time. 7 hour convos are the norm for my friend group as well!

In the latest video anger was brought up as a counter intuitive concept, that anger was just the denial of hurt. But a lot of people use anger as an outlet to express their pain in music, writing and fighting (for sport), among other ways. Anger can often be translated into power and beauty and studies have shown angry music to actually be a healthy and healing outlet. While I do think it's valuable to understand that anger could be the denial of pain, I don't think anger should be written off entirely as an unhealthy emotion, as I do think it can be healthy and constructive to "let it all out". What do you guys think?

@pluto Would you suggest doing a one day retreat before you try a one week? Or would it be more powerful for your first time to just jump into a week long?

@pluto So like a one day solo retreat? Sounds like an interesting challenge. I'll give it a shot! I still want to do a 7 day solo retreat sometime this winter with no electronics (phone, pc, tv, etc.) Really looking forward to that, never done a retreat before. @Pharion Agreed, after the retreats I take mentioned above I'll get back to you on that.

A video game could give an architect a new idea for their building. A powerful story can change your perspective on life. A quality documentary can teach you so much about a given subject. Youtube offer dozens of channels like Actualized.org that can benefit you. Listening to music, podcasts or a talk show while driving can improve your mood and stimulate your mind. Social media can offer you countless connections for your career. I think it's a good idea to make a structured time during the day for media, but media itself isn't the problem, it's just how you use it.

@Anton Rogachevski People will also listen to a speaker just because they like the speaker and will listen to what they talk about just because they like to hear their voice. I am that way with Mark Sargent, for some reason I really enjoy listening to him talk, even though I don't totally believe the whole flat earth theory. Same thing with Bob Davis and Matt Dillahunty. Even though I don't agree with what's written in the Bible, nor do I agree with the concept of atheism, I enjoy hearing them both speak about the Bible a great deal. So yes, I do agree that the charisma of the speaker is important, but you shouldn't allow it to totally overtake your skepticism of every piece of text or information that you study. You should do the opposite of what most people do. Most people close themselves off to only a limited selection of perspectives and believe those perspectives dogmatically, getting easily carried away with the persona of the speaker. Instead, strive to open yourself up to every perspective you can find, and be extra skeptical. And if you enjoy the voice and personality of the speaker, be twice as skeptical to ensure that you won't get carried away with dogma.

@Superfluo Happiness is a choice, you can choose to be happy under any conditions. Are you alive and breathing? That's all it takes to be happy, if you want it to be.

I experience the same thing, sometimes when I'm meditating it feels a lot like I'm being purged of all negative emotions and subconscious demons. In this way meditation has actually proved to be pretty practical for me, as the most pressing issues I have that I'm usually not aware of tend to creep up during these sessions (spend more time with grandma, work harder towards your goals, stop overeating, etc.) Other times I think about nothing at all, and those times sure feel peaceful, and during those times it feels like I could sit there for hours.

@lmfao Isn't it possible for a Stage Orange person to commit a sin? sure. it's just done in a different way, instead of murder it may be money laundering.

@Time Traveler Is there such a thing as objective truth? What if one of those perspectives was correct? I find myself resonating with all perspectives in different ways, I'm beyond a single perspective but in the back of my mind I wonder if any one of them really has it "right"...

I didn't really grow into any adversity, had it pretty easy growing up. The only adversities I have in life are the challenges I make for myself and the actions I make towards my life purpose and the challenges associated with that. It's almost a dangerous state to be in, because even though you're passionate about your purpose and it gets naturally fueled that way, it's also dangerous because it's counter intuitive for someone to actively give themselves a challenge. I sometimes think I would be further ahead in my purpose if I did grow up under tougher conditions because then I would have more of a go getter mindset and have more of an incentive to "get out" and to make something of myself. I'm not doing bad right now, I am making progress little by little but I also know I'm definitely not as far as I could be, not by a long shot.

Gifts are one of the 5 Love Languages. To you and I they may seem pointless, but to some people they mean a lot.

The reason I stopped believing in Christianity is when I realized that God had no interest in speaking to his people directly, but rather through an ancient book or prophets. If God wants to have a relationship with his people, why does he have to beat around the bush? He's God, there's no reason why he can't speak to his people directly. Furthermore, why are people destined to Hell by default? Why can't they go to Heaven by default, until they are shown wicked enough to go to Hell? Guilty until proven innocent, it seems. My same concerns with Christianity overlap to the idea of Enlightenment and "catching the ox". If the ox is so graceful and wonderful, why can't it come to us? Why the need to chase it? And why are we un-enlightened by default? Why aren't we born enlightened but then through our own desire or action can choose to become un-enlightened? And if this "ox" is sentient (which, according to what I've read is part of all of us), why can't "we" give "ourselves" enlightenment directly, if we're technically all already enlightened, or rather if we "are" enlightenment already?

@Serotoninluv I see the value of post-rational thought, and I believe I've had some glimpses at the Ox, but it's been scattered times and has never been consistent. I've had feelings, experiences and states which I consider extraordinary (extra-ordinary). But my attempts to rationalize them have always failed and I suppose this thread is my continued attempt to doubt the undoubtable, attempt to explain the unexplainable. After a calm and mindful lunch I had today I was just driving peacefully, totally soaked in the present moment and thought, this, this is the meaning of life. It just speaks to me at certain days and moments.

@Leo Gura It sounds nice but it also sounds like an argument from ignorance. (It's true just because it hasn't been proven to be false or I'm somehow blind to it.) You could replace "God" in that paragraph with anything and you would be equally right. It's an unfalsifiable claim! I'm going out on a limb here to understand this whole concept but it just requires too much suspension of disbelief to the point of me risking being deluded. If what I've observed is correct, this suspension of disbelief is required to "break through" and have "direct experience", but I'm afraid of using such vulnerable direct experience since it's so subjective. I could close my eyes and imagine I'm on the top of Mount Everest, but that doesn't mean I'm there, just like I could close my eyes and have a mystical experience, but at the end of the day it only means something to me. Ironically, direct experience is the most personally valuable yet also the least objectively demonstrable evidence. I mean, let's say everyone on the Earth became Enlightened and shared experiences and those experiences were found to be all consistent with each other. We still haven't found a cause. My question is: what's the cause of the sensation of Enlightenment?

@Anton Rogachevski Oh definitely, I'm positive what you're noticing and the emotions associated are instinctual. I, too, have hundreds of instinctual impulses a day I don't have control over. You can't make them stop, you can only learn how to respond to them.

@MiracleMan I've already accepted there is no real "I", and I could also accept that we are all the same consciousness. But...if we're the same consciousness...what else is there to find? And if it really does run away from us, hell, I AM the ox! So what is it running from? Nothing. So either the ox doesn't exist or it doesn't like to be questioned.

Seems you're using the model to judge others, I took a look at this list of enlightened people and they all look different: https://www.poehm.com/en/list-of-enlightened-people/

Would like to hear his perspective on this too

@Elisabeth I second this. That was a memorable meditation.

Leo, In one of the recent videos you made you mentioned you wanted to do a video on cults, which I'm looking forward to, fascinating topic for sure. There's a popular AskReddit thread going on right now about former cult members sharing their stories and one person mentioned the BITE model, which I thought you might find useful if and when you decide to shoot the cult video. http://old.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php Here's the original thread as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/a0ailw/former_cult_members_of_reddit_at_what_moment_did/ Edit: Heaven's Gate Podcast I found in the thread as well, seems high quality: https://www.heavensgate.show/

Pretty cool remix! Discovered through a comment on Leo's latest video. (Credit to Mike Palmu)

I'm pretty confident I'm at stage green, working hard to transcend into yellow. I've watched all the Spiral Dynamics videos (blue, orange, green, yellow, turquoise, etc.) and have done a lot of supplementary reading and reflected back on how I've evolved through my life. I was definitely blue as a child, heavy orange as a teenager and throughout my early 20s (20 to 22) I've reached green, so I don't think this is a matter of mis-categorizing my level. As Leo said in his last video, society did a lot to help with this. But there's still something about stage blue and orange that resonates with me. It feels like a home I want to run back to. There's almost a certain "purity" or "safety" or feeling of "home" when I think of these stages. The emotions of accumulating money, business, success and achievement, religion and tradition still come up for me a lot and I feel like they're so much easier for me to latch onto than yellow, which seems far off. Listening to blue/orange speakers especially gets this "long lost resonance" going so to speak. Not saying there aren't good aspects to blue and orange I shouldn't take with me to yellow, there are. But why does it feel so easy to run back "home" to blue and orange?