Finland3286

Yes!!!

I think it's a good thing to be skeptical of ideas but when I watch Leo's videos it opens my mind to different possibilities. I may not agree with these ideas or possibilities but it makes me question and look deeper into things. Even when it comes to enlightenment I thought that was just some nonsense belief but Leo clarified by calling it complete skepticism of everything. Although, when Leo talks about becoming God or experiencing bliss it seems like BS and one of those too good to be true things. But maybe that's just to get the ego engaged with inquiries and meditation to then become the "true self" or "no self". Although, when Leo talks about psychic ability supernatural phenomena and I see how this has been debunked time and time again I think he's just wrong. I guess if it's a real thing i'll believe it when I see it or if it looks like it has been verified by science. I don't really think it would be that hard to verify some of these things either if they are true.

Are psychic and supernatural phenomena real? James Randi set up a challenge where if someone could demonstrate some supernatural phenomena that they would win $1,000,000. I haven't really delved into the rules or regulations of the testing conditions of this challenge but I would just like to hear what other people think about this. Although, it seems like there is quite a bit of bickering back and forth about whether or not this testing was "fair" or not. But if this testing was "fair" wouldn't someone have taken him up on the deal and won if psychic and supernatural phenomena were real? Maybe if some enlightened yogi or guru possessed some of these abilities but didn't care about the money wouldn't they have taken up the challenge to then use the money to do something productive or beneficial for the world? (Considering they are not off in a cave somewhere and don't know anything about this challenge!). Take astral projection as an example, if this was real couldn't you have someone write some numbers or letters on a paper and put it behind some door in in a room and then have the person claiming this ability astral project and just go over to the paper and then recite what was written on it? Although, maybe this test was unfair and rigged somehow but I would like to hear what some others on the forum think about this kind of thing.

@Nahm Maybe, but I don't really look at things in that perspective. Although, if it's out there and real I feel inclined to find out about it.

@Leo Gura I see what your saying but what about that astral projection example I gave? Wouldn't that work to prove them wrong if astral projection is a real thing and worked that way? I've watched videos on astral projection and people talking about what they have done and it seems like they could remember some numbers or letters on a piece of paper or something like that. I don't want to just completely brush it off though because the first time I tried it I really felt like I was going to do it but I got scared of what my friend told me and I backed off. Ever since then I never got to that point because there might be some fear preventing me from going through with it. Also maybe that mushroom idea isn't too bad besides the 30 grams part lol .

I think this is what the transition from orange to green looks like.

I watched Leo's video on the Neti Neti method a few days ago. In the video Leo talks about you being a constant or something I interpreted as being a presence. I'm having trouble with this as isn't me thinking that I am a constant just another baseless assumption along the lines of me assuming I am the body or I am the mind? Because if I do this method I just hear this idea that i'm a constant and if I take that as truth it's just another assumption. Also if you are a constant and you become conscious of this through becoming enlightened would that mean that you are aware when you sleep in a way? (Just an interesting inquiry there.)

Maybe ask yourself why you have these fears and keep questioning yourself to get to the root of the problem. Ask yourself why you even want a guy in the first place. Leo might have some videos on his channel that could help you out.

I'm not too sure if I could help you grow faster but I would encourage you to watch Leo's Spiral Dynamics videos he has on his YouTube channel. They let people know where they are at and how you can grow based upon where you are right now.

I was watching Leo's video about "What Is Spirituality?" and in the video he talks about Non-Duality and I don't think I really understand it. In the video Leo talks about how science has never proved you are a physical biological organism and that science has never proven you are your body. Leo also says that science cannot prove that you are not the table you are looking at. Also that science has never proven the idea of a separate self because the idea of a separate self is just an illusion. He then goes on to say that it is a conceptual creation. Leo also tells us to construct an experiment to see if you are separate from your coffee table. To this I would say that i'm not the table because I don't experience things through the table. I know this isn't scientific but this is my line of thinking because I think i'm me because I experience things through my body. I perceive myself as being my experiences and the mind stores these experiences making me who I am and a table cannot do this. On the other hand I have had thoughts about dreams and Non-Duality. Because in dreams I have a perception like normal involving senses like sight and feeling. The dreams do have different people or beings in them though and I don't directly experience what they experience but I am creating the dreams in my mind. In this case I think it would be like Non-Duality because it is all one within the dream as i'm controlling it even though I don't perceive myself as unless I am lucid dreaming. So would lucid dreaming be like waking up to the nature of Non-Duality? How can I go about understanding Non-Duality as well? Is it like a conceptual thing or does it alter the state of ones perception in like a lucid dream when you realize you're in control?

@Rilles So even when I sleep it is there? Even though I am unaware of this? Also I will be sure to check that out. Thank you.

I have been looking into enlightenment and Non-Duality lately and it seems quite appealing and intriguing. I have been questioning many things lately and i'm not really sure if I know anything besides that all experience happens within oneself. Although, I find these things intriguing it makes me wonder if i'm just feeding what you would call your ego with these nice ideas. But maybe the point of these nice ideas is to first get into the steps to become enlightened? The problem is that I look at what people say about this topic and how it can't be communicated and I push it away because I don't want to spend this mass amount of time with these practices and have nothing happen. I guess there is this fear holding me back you may say but I would call it rationality. Because everything I have known, or thought I have known in life has been through the means of rationality as far as I can tell. Although, I have heard Leo say that this rationality and logic and even science is rooted in assumptions about reality itself. At this point I don't understand why this is the case, I mean to me it seems like the best way to figure things out because you can make sense out of things. But this may very well just be an assumption and I just can't really get it into my mind that this is an assumption. Right now as I typed how my means of figuring things out through rationality and science and logic work doesn't even seem like a remotely good answer, why these are good ways to figure things out, It's just that these things work and have worked for me. I watch Leo's videos and I put him on this pedestal because many things he says make sense to me and he seems like one of the smartest people I have ever seen. Then I look at this enlightenment and Non-Duality he goes into in his videos and I don't get how he made this jump so to speak. I don't feel willing to dismiss this whole idea because I look up to Leo and I want to be like him in a way. Also with me questioning many things I wonder how we can actually experience truth itself (whatever that may be) because as humans we don't see things as they really are. For example if you look at a tree and see it has a brown tree trunk and an animal looks at that tree and maybe they see another color who is right? Is neither right? Are these colors just a projection of the mind? Why should I go down this enlightenment path so to speak if I don't know if it's a real thing? I'm Okay with not knowing things and maybe there are things I can never know the answer to and if that's the case then that's just the truth and I think i'm okay with that, I just like to ask questions.

I watched Leo's video about the Neti Neti method to become enlightened. Leo says that you are a constant but how does this work? Isn't me thinking that I must be or am a constant just another assumption? How can I make progress by using the Neti Neti method when I think I am a constant but when I think about it it's just an assumption?

Where am I? Why am I here? What am I?

@Serotoninluv Thank you for your response. Also, no I have not looked into and don't really know anything about quantum mechanics. The only thing about quantum mechanics I heard about was from Michio Kaku talk about Schrodinger's box and about really small particles or something coming into existence spontaneously and then disappearing (Hopefully I didn't butcher quantum mechanics with what I just said there!). Maybe quantum mechanics is something I should look into in the future.

@Joseph Maynor It just makes me wonder why they would self introspect in the first place. I would assume 5,000 years ago there would usually be a lot more to worry about than self introspection and Non-Duality. Also I don't really know of anyone who just sort of decided one day to self introspect and pick apart their assumptions and beliefs. Seems like they would need a push in that direction and also information was probably harder to get a hold of 5,000 years ago.

@Leo Gura Thank you. It boggles my mind how people could have understood Non-Duality 5000 years ago. Makes me laugh at my ignorance if this whole thing is whatever it is . Also, I will be sure to read up on the topic as well.

"It's very simple. How do you know science and rationality are the best way to understand reality? To make such a claim is already to be deeply unscientific and irrational because for you to know that science explains all of reality you would have to run a scientific test on this claim. And the only way to run that test is to spend a billion years investigating every corner of the universe until you finally demonstrate that every phenomena possible within reality can be understood by science. It is by no means a given that this test will come out true. In fact, it's much more likely that you will discover tons of phenomena which cannot be understood by existing scientific method at all. You would be a naive fool to assume that science and rationality can grasp every facet of reality. This is a highly unscientific position". I understand what Leo is saying here about me just making all these assumptions about reality and science as well as rationality. I think the problem is that I was thinking that it's all garbage and must be thrown out completely if I was to believe in enlightenment. Although, that whole idea of believing in enlightenment is apparently untrue because it has to do with complete skepticism according to Leo. As of right now I think that I really have to look into self inquiry and some self deception videos Leo has. Because I kind of see how my reasoning is based off of assumptions and these assumptions work to an extent but that's not really truth. I see what Leo is saying (or at least I think I do ) but I think I really have to ask more questions to really find out about my ideas I have and see if they are actually rooted in something. Even as I type this I don't really want to to ask questions and challenge myself, It makes me feel sad in a way. Also thank you to everyone who posted on this thread It is greatly appreciated!

Also this really makes we wonder if what we experience is what we think it is or if what we experience is even true.

@Leo Gura When I think about God I don't think I have a negative belief, I just think that there is not good evidence to support that claim. You probably have a video I can watch about self introspection so I will be sure to check that out. You hit it pretty much on the nose when you said that "Atheists believe that God is absurd, irrational, impossible, imaginary, and unscientific. An opiate of the masses". Although, I would say it is "possible" but to a very small degree as again I have not come across sufficient evidence to believe. But even though it may be possible if I don't have evidence i'm not going to believe in it because many things "could" be possible but it seems at that point you're sorta manufacturing a conspiracy theory. Also maybe I am close minded about it but I used to believe in God and go to church but I really started asking questions and I looked for answers. The answers were flimsy and there was a lot of contradiction and things that seemed like complete BS.

@Leo Gura Why do you say that atheism is a religion? I'm pretty sure atheism is the absence in the belief of god. It is about not believing in something because of lack of evidence provided by someone claiming something. How can a disbelief in something because of lack of evidence mean that is a formation of religion? Usually when people use the word "God" it is generally associated with religion. I think the people in the show don't believe in god and even supernatural phenomena because there is no evidence to support this claim. Because people are trying to use logic to justify these claims and logic is being shot back at them to shoot them down so to speak. I really don't like to use the word "God" because of it's association with religion. Although, I can understand people using this word in different contexts. I just think that people who call into this show don't even understand god in the context you are using it as well as the atheists. It seems like the atheists are just calling BS on things that are not logical when theists try to use logic to justify something like the bible.

I know you linked me the thread to this topic but I don't really get what you're saying here. Like when you say if someone has the word "cat" and it takes a time that is not equal to 0.0000 seconds to pass through the mind so if everything is now how does perception exist? I would say that you are perceiving parts of the word during different times and you remember the parts of this word because it's such a short time ago. Like you would remember the "c" sound when you are saying the "a" sound for example and when you say the "t" sound to finish the word you would remember both the "c" and "a" sound to complete the word. Also maybe the problem is that I think time exists. I not only think it exists, but I also think it's objective because it passes at the same pace, or so it would seem. Subjectively it goes slow or fast depending upon what i'm doing but I think it's objective because it ticks by second by second at the same pace. Or am I just assuming this and making this up? I don't really know because I haven't tested it. Also you say that "Because no matter how small a chunk of time you consider, it's a mystery why anything happens at all". To this I think things happen because of cause and affect. Because what ever happens before to cause the next thing will cause then the next thing. It would help if you could try to clarify for me as I have different ideas or beliefs than you.

I was doing some contemplation about Leo's video as well. I think that for me i'm naturally inquisitive about things and I like to question why things are how they are. So if I am to use this as an example I could use certain insights I have had and spread my ideas and questions around to people. So if I am to do this to make a living there would be a certain amount of money I would have to make to live. But for me even if this would mean still living on the bottom of the pyramid I would be fine with that because then i'm not really worried about the money as long as i'm saving income by living below my income. For me I don't really care about what car I have or how big of a home I have because I don't see that as really important. I don't see this as too important because I look at people who are wage slaves and then once they get that sweet paycheck they blow it all on stuff they really don't need. This stuff they buy is really exploiting them through advertisements and societal norms. Take for example someone buying a new car. It's shiny and nice looking and probably drives real nice as well. Everyone looks at your new ride and says "WOW that's really nice! You should take me for a ride sometime!". How much did you spend on this car? Maybe $12,000 making $30,000 a year. Using this example and taking that you work 40 hours a week that would mean that new shiny car of yours took about 768 hours to acquire considering you didn't finance this vehicle as well. What did you really get from this car as well? Maybe some praise from friends and co-workers that makes you feel a little warm feeling inside. But as time goes on this high you get from buying this car will fade away and if you're not mindful you will repeat this process and you're wasting your life for some praise and a little high you get from shiny nice things which exploit the monkey mind of the average individual in society. It comes down to what you are drawn to and what calls you so to speak. Once you figure this out you must be creative in marketing whatever it is that appeals to you to spread whatever it is you want to spread. From your post you seem to be one who contemplates, so maybe find a way to market this contemplation and your questions to make others question what they are doing as well. My profile picture depicts a man named Diogenes. Diogenes was fully immersed in his work and ideas and renounced materialism. He lived in a barrel and questioned the norms of the time. Diogenes had very few possessions, one of them being a bowl. He once saw a homeless child scoop up water with their bare hands. Diogenes threw out his bowl because he realized he didn't need it. One time Diogenes was laying in the sun relaxing. Alexander the Great, the most powerful man of the time came to see Diogenes and asked him if there's one thing you want just ask. Diogenes replied by telling Alexander to get out of his light. The point is Diogenes literally lived out his ideas and concepts because they are far more beneficial than climbing this pyramid like Alexander had done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmXynDLkbXY I went vegan about 3 years ago because when I saw the animals being killed in videos it really opened my eyes to what I was contributing to and I felt horrible. As far as health goes I am by no means an expert but I think that a whole foods vegan diet is the best for ones health for the reasons Mic the Vegan discusses. I linked the video because he can give the information to you directly rather than me just regurgitating all of it up in my reply. I know that obviously anyone can just post links and claim to be right and argue to no end but I thought this is a good source as he links the studies he uses in his video description. Also an important thing to be careful of when looking at studies that claim certain products to be good or beneficial is that you have to look where the funding is coming from. If you have any questions about veganism and it's philosophy by all means go right ahead and shoot me a reply in this thread.

Ok, I think I understand what you mean about the idea that the Non-Dual experience cannot be communicated through words. What i'm trying to get at here is if I have the right idea that as soon as I attach ones true self to anything that is not a constant presence that I have again failed to recognize ones true nature. I realize I failed when I tried to attach a feeling to myself and a sight as these are not constants. Also is enlightenment a direct experience with Non-Duality as you realize you are a constant? Is my ability to recognize that these ever changing things like feeling and sight are not me mean that I have the right idea or am on the right track about how to find out about ones true nature? Overall i'm wondering if i'm on the right track, i'm not trying to wonder about what the experience itself is like.