Identity

Hee Leo, hee community, It’s been a while since posting. To be honest, over the last year or two the newer Actualized material resonated less with me. But this recent video on ‘fake spirituality’ really reconnected me again. What struck me most was the longing and integrity for God. It reminded me of the genuine leadership Leo embodies, which reignited my motivation to deepen my spiritual practice and connection. Interestingly, the time Leo has taken away from the regular pace of content creation has been valuable for me too. It gave me space to step back, integrate, and explore other perspectives. One of the main perspectives I explored was a form of Nondual Tantra. Over the past two years, I’ve participated in a course with six week-long retreats and 10-day retreats, together with my girlfriend. It was nice to see how well these teachings hold up against Leo’s “pure” yardstick for spirituality. The focus is on inquiry, direct experience, and practice, with with little dogma, and whatever tradition exists is held loosely, without the need to conform. That said, while I see the value in separating “pure spirituality” from “survival,” I also feel something gets lost in that distinction. The biggest growth I’ve experienced lately has been about integrating and embodying the spiritual connection I’ve built on my own. In previous years, the spiritual connection and understanding became solid; through years of meditation, 50+ trips, and a general attitude of metaphysical inquiry. There’s real substance in my experience of what the word God points to. By no means do I claim to have mastered this field but that hasn’t been the main growth edge for me. What’s been most transformative is the integration work, especially during group retreats with around 50 people, where many inquiries are done in relationship with others. If we use the chakra model for a moment, it seems Leo’s “pure spirituality” focuses mostly on opening the top two chakras. But for someone like me, whose challenge has been authentic expression, going deeper there without integration creates a separation between my solo work and the rest of life. Simply drawing a hard line between “spirituality” and “survival” can be limiting. A big part, maybe the majority, of the work is allowing insight to permeate into life, into form, into survival. One retreat exercise really showed me this. Using breathwork and meditation, I entered a mystical state where emptiness and infinity were crystal clear. Yet I could feel how it wasn’t fully integrated, how I longed to feel it in my heart, my bones, every cell of my body. So while I see the value in a no-bullshit definition of spirituality, and the danger of muddying the waters, I also see the need for nuance. For expanding spirituality to include integration into form: in how we relate, live, and embody. Just throwing this out there to see if it resonates. Also curious if you, @Leo Gurahave any thoughts on this. With much love and gratitude.

Yes, well put! was just reading the ‘conversations with god’ book and this sentence reminds me of what you mention here: “Being at the spiritual game means dedicating your whole mind, your whole body, your whole soul to the process of creating Self in the image and likeness or God.” So, it sounds like this moment is calling you to further embody your personal strength, and that being the right step in creating Self in the image and Likeness of God. Yeah, that’s I guess also what this post was about. Is the fact that becoming aware of what god is, to deeper and deeper degrees is definitely a key dimension. And yet the creating of self, and life, in the image and likeness of god, seems at least as big a task. And that definitely should be looked at as genuine spirituality.

Right, I hear you. And can definitely see in my own process also how at times there can be this pure intent, and at times there are other desires/motives behind the same practices. With that, there is also a new respect for the need to be have a narrow and pure definition of what the word ‘spirituality’ refers to. Thanks!

To be transparent; I read the original post and looked at some others, yet did not read the entire thread. Yet the topic does interest me as well. Understanding more about how form operates. I agree that there is more to it than simply saying ‘consciousness is fundamental, yet for the rest let’s stick to the laws of materialism’. From my own experience, there is clearly a more personal, intelligent, way that god operates through form. Especially in more expanded states of consciousness, things like synchronisities are definitely a thing. The chakra system clearly has some connection to phenomenon that can be directly experienced. And, at the same time, it’s a slippery slope as well to veer off to much from ‘common sense materialism’. I’s definitely also not the case that reality is so contextual and moldable (at ordinairy states or consciousness) that any thought or belief goes. There seems to be a connection there between degree of consciousness and fluidity to form. Yet how this all works exactly is quite a mystery to me. Especially also because it’s easy to fall into self-deception…

@Sincerity If I get you right, you’re saying from one perspective all developmental persuits are ‘spiritual’, whilst from another perspectice it can be seen as a spectrum ranging from ‘physical/survival’ to ‘spiritual’. Both being true in their own sense. Yeah, that’s a nice way of looking at it

@Carl-Richard Hmm, what are you pointing to with this sentence? Do you mean, that the intent behind spiritual practice is the best way to suss out ‘real’ from ‘fake’, since before complete enlightenment there is always a sense of self in the work?

This video was helpful for me in creating more nuance about what discipline is, and isn’t. I’ve been contemplating for a while what ‘conscious discipline’ would look like. Mainly because of the limiting aspects unconscious discipline can have. The self-guilting, the lack of self-awareness, the boxing oneself in with too much structure. And what Teal Swan refers to as bulldozing. In conscious discipline none of those elements are necessary. One can have complete self-awareness, compassion, nuance. And at the same time decide from will to act in a way that is beyond the path of least resistance. To act in alignment what one believes to be right, that contributes to their vision, that contributes to expansion. When developing discipline, I would be wary of unconscious discipline, as I find that there is plenty of that to go around in the personal development spheres. Then again, arguably there is a natural evolution where one first needs more of these unconscious elements as support structure before letting them fall away. At least, that seems to be the progression happening in my own life. I hope some of these thoughts help you with your goal to develop self-discipline this year. Good luck!

After watching most of the video on the forum and reading Leo’s comments, I would like to open a conversation on the topic of new age. It seems that my ‘form’ is to a large extend that of a new-ager. Most of the characteristics mentioned in the video are boxes I check: - Beliefs, attitudes, clothes (to some extend), relationships, interests, practices. A telling sign; one of the people at the tantra centre where my girlfriend and I are doing a series of seven retreats said: ”I assume that you’re one of those ‘man circle’ guys, that lack any spiritual depth.” Aaand, my reply was; ‘I kind of do, huh? Looking at my feminine loose patterned pants.’ Aaand, at the same time, I truly feel that I have directly grasped, experienced and am embodying many of the truths and principles that we pursue in this work. Interestingly enough, from a young age, it had been challenging for me to find my place. To ‘create myself’. To take a particular form in the collective world. In the end… some form needs to be taken right? You’re either wearing feminine loose patterned pants, or you’re wearing stiff jeans in which it’s impossible to move. I’ll take the first any day of the week. Anyhow, I’m opening the floor here; Are any of you taking this form as a ‘new ager’? or have you found other ways of finding your place in this collective world?

@integral Haha, daym, looks like you’re crossing boundaries I aint ready for yet. Agreed though; underwear? Silly restraining invention 😝

@Moutushi hahaha, that sounds like a fantastic time 🕺🏻

Haha this discussion puts a smile on my face. Love you guys ❤️✌🏼

Right, if I understand you correctly, this perspective is similar to the point I’m trying to make. Just like @Leo Gura says ‘no legs, no pants, no problem’. Yet, if I see the ‘form’ Leo walking around. There will be legs, and most likely, there will be pants. Right? Unless you’re THAT wild. @UnbornTao and yes, the possibility to eliminate beliefs sounds great. Yet, when you’re in a conversation with someone, words are still being said, right? However awake, detached, loose, the ideas are held, surely there is still some general philosophy that acts as your operating system? These examples are symptoms of the underlying idea; No matter how deeply one gets grounded into nothingness, there will still be some form that appears, right? That’s actually what I’ve been really enjoying about the tantric perspective. Yes, be deeply rooted in the formless. But don’t reject the form, fully infuse your consciousness into that form. Feel it. Live it. Live the human experience.

@Lila9 Yup, definitely agree that there is a lot of stage greeny shallowness going around in most new age places. And then again, it also varies a lot depending on the community and the individuals. It comes back for me to this challenge; there is some form that needs to be taken. Some way to show up, behave, interact, live. Say you want to dance, waaay rather go to a hippy-filled Ecstatic Dance then to go to a macho orange club. I guess the point I’m making; if behind the new age externals, there is actually the seriousness, the depth, the direct experience. Don’t see the problem.

@Leo Gura Surely you own a pair of those loose patterned pants yourself 😉

Happy to see you doing well Leo ✌🏼 if this wasn’t a tragic death of a young girl, I’d propose it to be a meme. Perhaps a mouse trap is a better fit 😂😅 oke, the croc is definitely better. subtitles: “Are you sure?”

After a phase with the theme ‘Resting in Being’ I sense a renewed desire in me to grow into a new way of being. What I am contemplating, is the ‘bridge’ of getting from my current way of being to the vision I have. Let me explain. When I got into the world of personal development and spirituality I had to climb out of quite a deep hole. My reality then was; - I had very little discipline - There were many habits and addictions that were dragging me down; smoking weed, gaming, porn, unhealthy eating, the usual suspects - I had no idea who I was and what kind of life purpose to pursue - Very little experience with dating It’s a bit of a simple way of explaining a more nuanced situation, but in many ways I was a lost student. Over the last 6-7 years my life has improved radically. The list above can basically be flipped around. I am excelling at all of these domains for the most part. From dating, to business, to lifestyle, as well as many spiritual layers have opened up. With that period of change being quite exhausting on many layers, the past 6 months or so have been on the theme ‘Resting in Being’. Ending that chapter with a month of holiday, I feel recharged and want to take myself and my life to the next level. The vision for it I can see quite clearly. What is unclear to me, is the ‘bridge’, the ‘how’. With how I don’t mean the practices or practical steps, that is clear to me as well. It’s more about the way I want to pursue this change. See, the ‘bridge’ that was very effective to get to where I got consisted of: - huge vision board - Many goals and habits - (Neurotically) tracking - Setting commitments - Consuming a lot of content It was the structure and discipline I needed to pull myself out of this whole. But it also came with a tightness, guilting myself, whipping myself. This whole system had melted away for the most part and I have learned that I can trust myself to function also without it. So the question is, what new ‘bridge’ do I want to build? I know it will be lighter, less structured, less mental, more intuitive… yet, it won’t be nothing either… ‘Conscious Discipline’ is a term that comes up, but what that will entail is yet to be shaped. Would love to hear your inputs and happy to answer questions ✌?

Was just rewatching the episode on Authority. Am now 40 minutes in. There are some confusions and nuances I want to lay out here. On the absolute domain, I’m on board. God is the true identity. Looking for any form to validate absolute truth is silly, since it is a partial element of God. In the end, I am God and that is all there is. (That’s to say, I’m on board theoretically. I’ve had various experiences of becoming conscious of it, but at this moment there is little direct experience of this.) Now, where things get murky for me is in the relative domain. It seems to me that there is more going on than saying it’s simply a matter of projecting out authority and in the end I get to decide what’s true. Oke, now that I’m writing this out, it becomes clear to me that as long as there is the belief that I’m an individual ego, it’s a very tricky game…. What would happen if I were really fully conscious as myself as God…. I guess that would give me full authority, even in the relative domain, since I’m the one creating the whole thing…?! Nevertheless, let’s lay out the line of reasoning that came up before. So, in the relative domain, let’s say I do identify as this body-mind being. From that perspective it does make sense to have a sense of authority, right? For example, I need to get my bike fixed because I have a flat tire. It would make sense to give the mechanic who has fixed 1000’s of tires more authority than the kid who has never done it before, right? And let’s say, I would have never fixed a tire before and have no clue how to do it, then it would make sense to listen to someone ‘outside myself’ to gain information on the topic, right? This comes back to the whole discussion on ‘what is understanding’. Yes, ultimately all language, beliefs and images are a mere subset of absolute truth and will always be partial. But in the relative domain, there are ways of building up a mental construction that has resemblance of an object or process. And in this survival game of relative mental constructions, it can make sense to give authority to ‘others’ who have created a more effective, more truthful mental construction. To make this topic a bit more personal, the reason it’s so interesting to me, is because my profession is to be a trainer/growth facilitator. So I give trainings on topics such as leadership, softskills and personal development. The game of authority is very prevelant here, not something I particularly like, but it’s a necessary game to play in order to survive in the business. There are many authority claims I refer to, from my education, to experience, to sources, to results, to even the way I dress and talk. I guess I am finding my way in navigating this in a balanced and relatively authentic way. Those are enough thoughts for now, would love to hear some reactions ✌?

8 years ago being courageous was not a trade associated with me. When I asked people around me what my top 5 strengths are last year, courage was part of everyone’s list. Reflecting on my growth process, I would say it was a rather gradual one. As Nathaniel Daniel describes, self-esteem is a reciprocal trade. When we have more self-esteem, we act like it. When we act like it, we grow in self-esteem. my advice would be to deliberately start taking small courageous steps outside of your comfort zone. Pick-up can be great for this. I did door-to-door sales which helped. Starting your own business. Talking to strangers. Posting something online. Expressing your boundaries. The list is endless. Brain Begin from Fearless has this technique called smth like the ‘tension journal’. Where he would note down throughout the day which actions he could take and which degree of tension they would be. 1 being completely comfort zone. 10 being completely out. Then he would challenge himself to do actions in the 4-7 range to train his courage. In the end, what I’m saying is that courage, bravery and decisiveness can be seen as a skill. Train it deliberately and you will grow.

One thing I see myself and a lot of people around me struggle with, is creating conscious discipline. To use Spiral Dynamics, what I see is a lot of people of my generation in the wealthy west are at this orange/green border. However, they lack a solid blue foundation. Beyond lacking it, there is actually resistance to it. And for good reason. A stage green person who is working on self-acceptance does not want to go back to create discipline through self-judgement. That is a lot of self-help around the topic of discipline; a super-ego being hard on itself. Conquering your inner bitch. Guilting oneself. Pushing away emotions. my question; how can one go about creating conscious discipline? I intuit that there must be a more conscious way of building discipline, perseverance and structure than described above. However, I can’t quite get a grasp on what that looks like. Any ideas?

@LastThursday Thank you for sharing. Yes, I agree that having a clear payoff is crucial in order to sustain the discipline over a long time. I think the crux in discipline is that it is the ability to do something, even when resistance shows up in the form of emotions/thoughts. on insight that comes to me whilst typing this, is that conscious discipline would be the ability to still fully feel, embrace, accept whatever is going on inside, and then choosing to act. Which is the opposite of hoe discipline is often thought of; pushing away, denying, rejecting, belittling the resistance. You mention the phrase ‘conscious disciple ins being aware of the process of being disciplined’. I don’t fully get what you are pointing to with this, could you elaborate?

Why not go for the mother? Oke, all jokes aside, I agree, mostly who you are being and who she is being will be the most important. There is no quick fix to create a conscious relationship, the individual inner work will have to be done first. It sounds like the basis is right, both on a similar path of growth with aligned values. That being said, creating a conscious relationship could also be seen as a separate skill. What has really benefited my relationship is a tantric approach where both people are allowed to be where they are at, feel what they feel, without that being judged or needing to change.

Am on a tantra retreat. This van is of one of the participants. Couldn’t imagine a better example of stage green ?

Thanks for the tips. More plants, yes. Air purifyers, perhaps, I’ll keep that in mind. Cat and aquarium, no thanks ?

I will give a bit of context here. However, if you would like further information, feel free to ask and I will provide it. So, around three years ago I started my business called Realize. The mission is to support the next generation to create their reality through workshops coaching and events. Yes, Leo's work and Actualized have inspired it greatly. In the previous 'chapter' of the business, I had to model to collaborate with educational institutions. I came to the point of having a network of 20 institutions that would book me for workshops, as well as do some one-on-one coaching on the side. It was going... but to be honest, it was still a struggle to really create a consistent outcome of it. Nonetheless, I had helped 1000+ people in this way. I felt like continuing this path would lead to success down the line. In September I kind of doubled down on the business. See, it was not, and is not, the only thing I do career-wise. But I made new commitments about time investments and also had four interns joining me to help grow the business. I was definitely on fire. However, it felt like the educational institution side was showing some resistance. Booking a workshop for a couple of hundred euro's for a young entrepreneur was fun and cute, paying a couple thousand for a series of workshops did not catch on quite as well. With my inner momentum building a new opportunity presented itself out of nowhere. My own location! Without really having this in mind, I got offered a location in the centre of Maastricht, The Netherlands where I live. It's a beautiful space at a great location and at an even greater price. The one caveat.. I rent it anti-squatting, which means that there is no certainty for how long I can stay. Basically, at any moment I could get a letter that says I have one month to pack my stuff. That is not ideal... but still. It really felt like a present from the universe. On the same day I went to view it, I got the keys. Out of nowhere, I had my own location! Great, right? Well, it turned out not to be as easy as expected. The investments in terms of finances, time and energy were larger than I had predicted. For the past three years I had worked hard to find a balanced flow in my work, and the location basically threw that whole flow off. The past two months have been quite a lot. Paddling on all sides to make things work. Especially on the financial side, I wanted to 'carry this burdon' myself, and declined help from parents and friends. It's a theme for me that I want my own flow to make sense, be independent. So I was working double on both sides; setting up the location which COSTS money and doing extra freelance work to support it. It felt important to my own journey that I carried the outcomes of the decision I made. Now, it has been two months since I first got the key. The place is fully furnished. Internet is (finally) installed. There is a group chat of 60 people interested in personal growth that I set up. I've talked to around 10 facilitators who also want to use the space to host personal growth events. My financial situation still is not great... but I feel like I've gotten past the peak of the challenge. So here I am. The vision is to make this a centre of personal growth filled with love and wisdom. I see a community of hundreds of people who regularly come for all types of events; meditation, journaling, morning routines, conscious movement, mindfulness, sharing circles, coaching and more. Basically, I want this to be the place where personal growth HAPPENS. From where I stand now to where the vision is, there are quite a few things already in place. Myself and others around me are basically ready to start hosting sessions. The main challenge... regular paying clients. I know this is the crux of most businesses... yet in a way, I feel like things could go pretty quickly. However, my approach so far has not worked too well. See, I've already hosted 5-10 events here. But so far, it has all been pretty last-minute thrown together. 'Hee, on Sunday we are doing this' 'Two days from now we do this'. That has not worked very well. There have only been a couple of people showing up to those events so far. So, my question is, how do I build momentum in a WISE way? My intuition so far is to host regular recurring events. And to start with just a few. For example a weekly recurring guided meditation. Kind of like building a fire. The spark is there. Now to bring that spark into the place. Gently blow on it. Gently start adding some paper and twigs. And only add bigger logs once there is enough momentum. So, that is my brain dump. There is a lot more that could be shared, but this covers the essence. Would love some wisdom on how this momentum could be built. Preferably by people who have done something like this before. Thank you in advance.

Definitely wise to go inside, feel, contemplate, compare. on thing that might help is to put each option on a piece of paper and write about that option. Put the pieces of paper in different parts in the room and walk around. Whilst standing on each paper imagine what your future would look like if you made that choice. Also consider that there might not be a ‘right choice’. Rather different choices that lead to different futures.