Will

OK so I have worked out that I can give unconditionally by enjoying what I am doing rather than keeping score however. I am suffering from two problems.. 1. I have more and am constantly being asked to provide for those that cant provide for themselves 2. I have no one to goto for advance friendship.. So few people have any clue about enlightenment path and or even awareness.. How do I stop from being sucked dry... I have money and time and skills.. and people have there hands out and expect me to give unconditionally but give nothing. I know I need to find a mentor But I want to know what to do with my normal friends.. I feel like I cant talk to them about anything I feel very alone even when im with them.. I enjoy the relationship at a basic level but just feel alone and isolated.. thoughts??

I have a feeling he would "want to say",,, we are already enlightened,,,, and always have been, but we cant or wont accept it yet... So he does not tell us ... Isnt that the job of a yogi or enlightened person, is to actively try to bulshit us until we admit to ourselves.. "this guy is no more than us, we are already enlightened" lets face it have you ever not been in the now.. have you ever not been aware.. have we ever not been conscious... Yeah sure we can move our focus from nothingness to awareness to presence to thought ect... at will.. but that could be a feature, not a bug...

@Nahm Um... Ok?? Well. anyways.. still love to listen to anything you have to share.. Thanks again..

I listen to so many teachers and they all have there own flavour of PD.. Its really hard to make sense of it all.. I pick up bit and pieces from each But im too cautious to get behind any one of them because they all have parts which seem out of alignment with my energy.. I have a feeling I need to find more desire and passion.. But it goes against my idea that the" world does not require anything" and the "world is just perfect the way it is.." I feel allot of extreme motivated people have underlying desire to FIX the world.. I feel as though I need some way to be ok with making an impact on the world, but My belief that" the world is completely fine" I think is really holding me back.. Do I delude myself that the world needs fixing?? Or do I see it as just creating for arts sake.... If its just for arts sake (expression) I find the drive is not as high as it could be... How can I boost my drive to create?? How do you create like your life depends on it... Im fine with, enjoying the creation process, but I cant seem to do it with extreme passion and calm yet super intensity.. Calm yet super intensity.. I think is what im looking for.. WTF How is that even possible.. Thanx peeps..!! Really appreciate any stories or feedback/ideas

Yep. I hope so anyways.. Or are you being facetious?? sorry cant tell.. words are not good at conveying tone. Where to I suppose is what I am asking?? doesnt seem like there is anywhere to go.. just wander around and enjoy.. Well if I did Id be awake right??

Nice Is there a point to this?? Yes but we can interupt this loop quite easily.. state changes can be effected by alternate actions and alternate thoughts.. So ...? I think I get but what is the point?? Umm I have been.. this is my point exactly?? Youve hit the nail on the head.. Now that I see I can change to whatever.. its kinda like you can see the guy behind the curtain.. Its me.. Now what?? This is getting close to what I am looking for.. so for you all of this stuff is what guides you.. compells you yeah?? Can I ask why? Um. ok.. Not really something I care to much about.. What compells you to do this.. I guess.. What do you think its going to lead to?? Or are you suggesting its better to be a non thinker?? Or maybe a balnace of both?? Cheers

I think I may be explaining this wrong.. when you put it all together like this its seems like im close to some kinda breakdown.. lol...

@Nahm I was kinda hoping you might elaborate with anecdotes or share stories perspectives.. Not sure why you dont want to.. Do you mind sharing..? WHys that? surely other people could have similar questions.. feelings.. I think why I am at this stage is because I get a sense that theres this thing in the background.. the only way I can characterise it is that its there and its unchanging.. it seems to be everywhere attention or experience is.. its really left me with a sense that this whole experience is a sort of projection or game.. But at the same time there is this visceral manifestation, which has sensations thoughts all playing out in a seemingly physical existence.. Its really quite a marvel..Its intriguing, but at the same time kinda pointless.. the two aspects seem to be complimentary, one needs nothing and cant be changed the other is in constant change and thrives on its own manifestations.. Know that I Can sense this.. Its hard to how to operate and what next.. cos they both will be just as they always have .. Seems the only thing I can do now is just enjoy wonder in its marvel and Get involved in the manifested side (cos the other side is and does nothing) I would really love to know what value meditating further would have?? Cos right now Im looking at both sides thinking ... well there is really nothing to do except join the game and see where it goes?? What value are you hoping more meditation will add.. maybe this is all there is?? Or have you experienced something else? I am by no means chasing happiness.. Nor do I wish to be a monk or guru.. Thanks for any input on this..

@Nahm correcting? i actually really enjoy finding the subtle differences in things.. I really do.. For the longest time I felt like I had to listen to everyone else, but now I can express myself.. Id actually really enjoy the perspective if others wanted to challenge me on subtleties.. care to elaborate??

Yep.. trick is to realize we can become desensitized to it.. take it for granted.. Well. it is what it is, and theres nothing we can do about it.. its currently Just there and looks to be in balance. well or bad who knows..? But it certainly there.. I would probably just say its fascinating.. most? i dunno... imaginable? I could imagine more fascinating, but not to such detail and with such persistence.. Makes taking psychedelics seem like an interesting proposistion. i suppose that is included in this canvas too though..

Ok i think I have discovered a belief.. I feel nothing is worth doing because We have no really ability to decide what the future can be.i.e. that life is not predictable. I realise I have made a straw man argument of the idea that your experiences mean nothing. or that the egos incessant striving ultimately means nothing, (we die and cant experience our legacy, we dont even know if anything exists after we die) this also applies if there are infinite universes.. So its seem i have only two options, choose that life really means nothing and do whatever pick a the noblest way given the current circumstances and use an ego consciously to forfill that end.. fulfilment comes from just a choice (you choose to live life a particular way and its totally your choice, not good or bad) Happiness is also a choice, not a destination.. Right.. now I got that outa the way.. How to embody that.. any ideas?? I think it has something to do with commitment and planning a way to face fears.. thoughts comment.. Have I completely lost it ?? LOL

I had a thought about this.. happiness is not a place or event or whatever, you cant go there,, its a choice. so I dont think being self actualized is going to make one any happier.. and the whole warn scare tactic.. wont work on some people..threats dont make me motivated.. I need to be compelled.. This I need to think about some more. but it does imply we know what is our best.. this always reminds me of that story of the farmer who lost his horse.. the village people came to offer condolences by saying" we are sorry for your misfortune in losing your horse" to which the farmer replied" it could be bad it could be good ,I dont know" long story short. the moral of the story is that we cant know what is good for us.. its just a journey.. thinking else wise is like saying one atom is better than the other.. yes one leads to doom and another shines bright? both are necesary and required? this i need to ponder on some more.. how can you deliberately plan.. could it be like believing the destination is better than the journey kind of thing?? I mean who deliberately plans to be miserable..? I think it comes about because people are operating with false principles?? i.e. when your hungry we eat. but these days food is less about feeding and more about taste or in the opposite situation image (bolemia)

Which sounds like something the ego might say? The best way i know to describe what I am experiencing is that we exist at a divergance point. probably no path taken is correct.. you can be happy on anyone of them. no matter which one you go down, will probably have challenges.. In saying that sitting still doing nothing is also a path just as trying to go back the way you came and trying to relive some past. Now that I am here. I have probably lost any sense of urgency. I dont really understand my limits are, and its looking in order to do so I need to engage in some form of seeking (probably egoic too).. As much as you suggest that taking some higher path of pushing your limits is the correct path,, it may have at its base a desire for something egoic,, world peace, fame , fortune, Just as one creates a picture or plays music.. that too is a hunt for beauty or symmetry.. which could be no different for seeking purity of mankind (hitler).. Hope im reflecting myself as correctly as possible..

possibly.. I really dont know.. they all seem pretty made up to me.. possibly again its a judgement that others need helping. if we are all one thing, you basically saying I need help.. I have a feeling it just is how it is .. if anything just an exploration.. yes exactly right.. this is what it feels like for me.. whys that?? again less is a massive judgement. what the hell is less.? It implies we know something about the world.. Thanks for the discuscussion. its difficult to find someone to challenge these ideas with.. even here.

@Nahm lots of people claim lots of things.. But thanx.. Ill consider this with all the rest. Not exactly what I was trying to get at tho.. fixng , fulll potential, changing, whatever you want to call it.. seems it could all be a similar sort of thing.. we dont know what this place is , needs or should be,, How can we.. we can push it to full potential if we like but that would require effort ,,, pushing.. ? really? whats greater that what it already is?? how can you get any better..?? you mean about your personal situation?? or the whole... id say we have no clue how well the whole is doing??? cos we dont know it and cant.. seems we can Only expereince things from the limited scope of our current experience, and thats all we have?? I think i see your point see whats capable , just because?? possibly.. motivation is tricky,, I think this whole thing is about being aware of what your really motivated by.. I guess when i dig down on my motivations I see they are similar to my ego type motivations and it really saps my drive?? Im not sure I by the whole save the world or exploring extreme possibilities.. it doesnot seem as compelling as I hoped.. Your right, at times its just about being comfortable,, i think i need to dig into that a bit more..

im not sure i understand this.. are you able to put it in a diff way?? Im not 100 % sure here either.. as in its trying to adjust things to fit?? Which option?? you mean allowing ego to determine my actions?? I get this bit ,but what im trying to clarify is the relationship between desire, passion drive and how to at the same time be aware conscious and calm and in a state of flow.. so a kind of relaxed intensity.. if I do have desire, youd have to constantly be wary of being attached to that desire.. did i explain that right?? I totally get this, but the people who get hurt dont think so.. I dont mean it but they certainly think i do.. which sux..

Looking for some tips on how to evaluate if will ever get back into a relationship.. what are the plusses, opportunities for growth that I could not get myself.. In my 40s now, so its not really about a family. its really just about developing the deepest relationship apart from yourself.. Its a really tricky subject because I have to be really aware of what my ego and body want. and im really hoping that I could find a truly interdependent thing, and see how that goes.. Relationships Ive already done.. the feeling obliged to do the right thing The nice and easy one yet we dont really connect the passion filled train going in opposite directions Now just wanting to explore something a bit more like a flowing.. non clingy, transcending give and take, more like just doing because you can.. like art..Like when two energies come together they express through each other but never force the other.. Has anyone seen this or have any stories about what this would look like??

dont we all.. its more our own battle than it is the world being unfair to us thou.. for men too.. besides that point, we have labelled our situation tough, because of our identifications, brain, and ego ect.. we mostly make things tough , because we judge , remember, don't let things go hold grudges, unfairly forecast, and hinder ourselves in soo many ways... I would say its also possible to consider we make our lives hard, and that life is intrinsically ,actually pretty easy. I guess that's what we are trying to embody here.. we all get that and understand but we don't live it yet.. Well I don't... In my perspective this is a somewhat superficial issue, id say that there are underlying issues that would be more effective to work on.. These superficial things ( I don't mean to undermine this issue) Can tend to distract us ??

I guess your free to have that in your world if you wish.. I personal am going to try and transcend both.. I would prefere to see things as up and down rather than high and low.. Subtle but different.. rather than good bad, Just differing.. duality is still there just no judgement.. To me persoanlly it seems more logical. I dont wish to convince you otherwise.. Just me ya know?? Im trying not to believe anything.. Im trying to just know what i know and admit I dont know everything else.. WHy not just imagine the things you think youd like.. and put that out there?? WHy try and fit a square in round hole why not just imagine a cube into existence?? Maybe we dont have to worry about where we currently are?? Maybe be can go where ever we want, regardless of where we came from.. and where we are presently.. we are fairly bound inn the now but our imagination is probably boundless.. And who knows what will be in its place.. I think you get it now.. Kinda scary facing death huh.. exciting to tho.. Im in.. All I am saying is that, if you do what is honestly compelling to you, and you have minimised the self doubt,,, in general, the experience will be expansive, you wont be looking for dramas more exploration.. Things are only impossible until someone does it..

Like alan watts points out.. we could also look at them and smile thinking wow they really are right out there.. Its not for us to judge but we can appreciate it, and probably we should not try and awaken them as its like walking a tight rope...

I think this journey is teaching me that there are things I can know that I don't,, I things that I cant know that I think I do.. They both help me to move in more of a state of flow.. rather than resistance..

I have made the mistake of preaching in the past.. never again.. all I am saying here is my expression of possibility. youll notice I try not to use terms like must or need or is or have to... What the hell do I know... This is like a big exploration game , its quiet enjoyable, but is quiet mysterious and you never know where your oing either.. maybe its that way for a reason?? Yep. id say this is probably true.. I don't think im fully trying to work it out just trying to get a gist of things.. I think I prefer that life is a bit of a lucky dip.. Thanks again.. This has been most enlightening x

I am thinking there is no other. the pain and suffering in others could well be ours and ours only and we just reflect that out. the more I discuss this the more I think the other is just what we see in ourselves.. pain and suffering could be an illusion... They may be Us, so maybe its our actions we should stop??? If your yelling at someone,, because they make you angry, who is responsible?? id say we could accept complete responsibility and not yell and add to an already bad situiation.. im not sayin, oh that's ok continue on.. but something like.. "ok, whats going on, lets talk about it.. try and get to the bottom of this.. is this really what you want??" Im clearly not explaining myself here.. im not saying tolerate,, more remove the judgement... how that looks.. im not sure.. I think the judgement is real evil.. why cant we just forget the judgement and se it for what it really is.. how can we separate ourselves though.. We could all be one?? Anyways, there may be no sins anyway.. That's just what we call it because we hold a belief that there is lack..?? Really?? id resonate with this.. I have a feeling negative and abuse may not even exist.. they stem from our belief that there is lack possible in our existence.. im not sure why its a mistake what is repulsions and negativity don't exist?? Well suffering may not exist.. im not sure about this.. who am I to Tell them how to live.. all I can do is sort myself be joyfull myself and not add to others.. theres is there choice?? Unless of course they ask??

@Emerald I think I am keen how to better handle my own demons and also how I treat the so called evils of the world.. Cos I guess at the end of the day everything that is happening is part of me.. Thanks for helping me to try and flesh this out.. x

@Emerald comes back to what we where discussing before about what to do with a abusive partner.. I think for starters.. Stop calling them abusive.. Not responding to there external fear of lack and only addressing there internal expression of love and abundance.. Who can do this though ?? NOT most people!!!. So yeah.. Leave that situation until you learn the tools to be able to not be triggered by the superficial fears and needs.. And approach that situation from the perspective of the underlying love and abundance that we all have.. I don't know. there must be a way we can have abundance in those situations???