seeking_brilliance

@ivankiss wow this goes hand in hand with what I just published in my book study (journals section) The book goes on to say this new perception is one full of curious wonder. Anyway, yes I can see how everything just is, always accepted, its existence is its own acceptance-- and that resistance is inherently futile and unneeded. Then again, I got angry and cursing at the water hose this morning because it kept kinking while trying to wash off the sidewalk.

((Reading music, or you can listen to it before reading to settle the mind)) 4:30-31 For the insight into my own experience, I must admit that I don't know. I must give that not-knowing it's space to flourish. One of the problems here, and I can relate, is that the mind wants to look for something in the space of not-knowing. It can't fathom that this space is nothing, and without substance. That's not to say its not a real experience. Its not that my experience will disappear, or that perception ends, that that whatever is perceived is in the moment is 'recognized as distinct from the state of not-knowing." 4:32 Not-knowing is the opposite (I feel like that's the wrong word… more like… coexisting) of what is perceived. It's what isn't perceived or experienced. Placing awareness on this state finds nothing. Open, unfilled; in a sense-- empty. The author promises, however, that a "true experience of this state…is more dramatic than you would think." Until this experience, all we have is a concept of a state devoid of knowing. (again, I can relate… I've been pulling up this concept, however, when I readily admit that I just don't know things, throughout my day. ) 4:33 --It is in the emptiness within the cup that makes it useful --- Lao-tzu-- When we look at a cup, we see what is there, we see things about the cup, such as its form and usefulness, but when we add in what is not the cup-- such as its surroundings, and the fact that not-cup MUST exist for there to be the-cup-- so it is with not-knowing. This gives a more whole experience of the cup, being able to shift our focus/awareness on the-cup AND the importance of not-cup. 3:34-35 The moment anything is perceived, labels and assumptions are immediately applied to it like at the speed of light. (no wonder this is so tricky!) If we can simultaneously pull in this feeling of not-knowing into awareness, we pull the taken for granted perception into a "fresh and present encounter." A keener perception of what is encountered. (awesome, I've already been practicing that!) 4:36 Like Susan's drawing, when you can look at an object while simultaneously lifting the veils that 'knowing/assumptions/labels' create-- you see it for what it really is. 4:37 OK I'm looking at a sock on the floor. I know it’s a sock--I have memories of it being on my foot--I know its made of cloth of some kind--I see black stripes on what would be the sole-- but as I'm looking I'm trying to also forget that I know what it is and just see the scene for itself. I'm taking it in… not pulling up labels, or gently letting them go as they arise….I'm trying to replace any thought with… "hmmm… what?" (my idea, not from the book) In conclusion, at least for now.. Its very hard to see it as not a sock. This may take much more practice. 4:38-49 (oops never mind I guess replacing labels with the wonder-thought-- what it it?-- is actually a suggestion from this paragraph) The author doesn't want me to pretend I don't know, he wants me to get in touch with this very true fact and then do the practice throughout the day. Once I recognize that I really don't know-- the real inquiry begins. In this curious inquiry, answers will come and go, but the inquiry won't be satisfied until a true insight arises.

What is an Experience? Chapter Four: 18-29 4:18 My present experience: while reading, the dog came and licked my hand. I ignored her and she left, but the feeling of cold stickiness is rather gross on my wrist. There actually is a lawnmower in background, and the husband is watching the tv rather loudly in the living room. I'm a bit anxious about work today because yesterday was stressful. (its funny, all of these things happened in sequential order of noticing, but I'm gathering them all together now in expression….) 4:19 Experience is always here, now, and its like a t.v. that is always switched on. Yet its hard to describe and talk about,( since we really only are caught up in focused aspects of experience, mostly about how we are affected by it) There are two basic definitions for the word experience: 1: when an object, though, or emotion is sensed or perceived. 2: to live through, personally. 4:20 We can experience through physical action or imaginary production. For example I can think about answering the phone and what might happen, or actually answer the phone and experience what happens. Both are experiences. 4:21-22 Even in an answered phone call, how much can we say we really experienced? If we were to write a list of experiences about the phone call, most of it would include thoughts, emotions or reactions about the call. To truly experience it is something free of labels. The raw experience of the audio coming through the speaker, for example. 4:23 In another example, a rock maintains its physical façade and properties regardless of what thought we put onto it. To truly experience the rock, one must put awareness onto it without the overlay of reactions to it. 4:24-226 likewise we can experience an idea, rather than thinking it. 2:27 Every experience of something is overlaid with thoughts about it. When we are identifying with the thoughts about an experience, we are not experiencing. (the experience of having thoughts is a whole different domain and definition from this true experience we are talking about here. So much so that maybe it should have a different word) 2:28 Likewise we mistake our thoughts of being aware, with the raw experience of awareness. 2:29 This idea of experiencing awareness rather than thinking about it and putting conceptualized labels on it… I dunno… something I 'get' but can't quite put my finger on it. I spend most of my awake hours distracting myself with video games, work, t.v., this book study, etc. I need to sit with this notion of experiencing awareness itself… dammit that's what meditation is for I'm sure… maybe soon….

I think there should be a new member welcoming thread or even sub forum. I definitely don't think anyone intends to ignore new members... But you need to realise a few things - - 1: many folks advanced in this work remain silent unless they get that tingly feeling on a subject that peaks interest. That's because you may discover that you shouldn't talk about things you don't know (unless in mutual 'fanboy curiosity', so to speak..) 2: this forum moves very fast and many threads get lost from the front page, sometimes in under a day. No one got time to look at page 2 ? 3: tone is important. 4: respond to a number of threads yourself and build a presence. This may help get more responses to your threads. 5: have fun, learn fast ? 6: this forum is a spectrum of personalities and growth level. It's the best echo chamber of spirituality I've found. Yes of course you will interact with many egos in tact, that's the point ?.

Do it! My posts will start slowing down since things seems to be already getting real dense and will take time to unpack each section. Not to mention I'm not allowed much time to work on it ? #married life

Yes alcohol can open, though the insight is all yours

@Zigzag Idiot I would be interested in hearing more about the fourth way just out of curiosity of course The first paragraph sounds like an intuitive empathy ... I like in the second and third paragraph how he talks about the pendulum swing...

@zeroISinfinity you should join me in reading the book of not knowing.. My book study is in the journal forum. It might relax this incessant need to explain everything

So where are you in this picture?

(Trust me I took the long way to figure this out-->>Don't ask us, just experiment with it yourself. Tell me who or how it's doing it. Then we will check over your answer to scout out any assumptions. Just give the answer from your heart, don't think about what you are hearing others say...

Thinking without a Net Chapter Four: 9-17 4:9-10 Experiences of not-knowing, even brief glimpses, are like a doorway to a new (reclaimed) world of wonder. It's not enough to have an idea of not knowing, you must experience this state of not-knowing. (geez doesn't that sound familiar.) Otherwise, this is still a cultural 'knowing and not knowing"-- just a concept in either direction. 4:11-12 In the venture to know who you are, the first VERY important step is to genuinely have the insight that you do not know. (Even now I can sit here and say I don't know who I am, without all the labels, but I haven't actually dropped all the label yet. So this prerequisite to knowing myself has not been met.) 4:13 This is true for any inquiry. Anytime you seek to know something, you much experience the not-knowing>>knowing, and not apply the cultural labels and thought processes. 4:14-15 The author expresses the importance of not taking this book as some kind of way to think your way into not-knowing. This book is a pointer and the tools presented must be practiced for a genuine experience. Try not to conceptualize what's being presented and merely absorb and experience. 4:16-17 Don't jump to conclusions. Experience, now.

((Reading music, or you can listen to it before reading to settle the mind)) Learning versus Knowing Chapter Four: 1-8 4:1-2 The author asks us to think about breathing. He asks if inhaling or exhaling is more important. We see the question as nonsense because breathing is one of the first things we put a veil over and forget about, even though it literally fuels a physical body. But even something so forgotten can be 'fine tuned and improved', but not if we pretend we know all about breathing. Exhaling and inhaling are equally important, one can not exist without the other. 4:3 He says this is similar to knowing and not knowing. A balance must be struck. Oh I see, not-knowing is also similar to breathing because its always there but we have ignored it so much we don't even recognize it. It is always there, being the requisite to knowing. When we resist not-knowing (because cultural programming) we are also hindering the very thing we seek-- knowing. Same as if we decided not to exhale. Inhalation would not take place. (except when survival kicks in and exhalation is unconsciously activated.) 4:4-5 Cultural programming rules our relationship with knowing. It makes us grasp for knowing, instead of giving not-knowing its due space. We should be seeking to learn something unfamiliar- if we don't then we are just adopting more beliefs. 4:6-7 The author's meaning of 'letting go of knowledge' does not refer to a 'meditative letting go' in hopes of 'getting there'. Nor does he wish us to take a cultural thought on it and completely dismissing the notion in fear of ignorance. 4:8 He warns us of trying to turn the negative view of not-knowing into a "positive" stance by "seeing not-knowing as a relaxing meditation." This is because we will still put assumptions on it and assumptions kill not-knowing (and subsequently knowing.)

Exercise Struggling I do not experience a deep inner peace all the time. I struggle with my career and the direct fact that my reputation is on the line. This sends me into frenzies ,because things go wrong ALL THE TIME. It's the nature of the business, but (in belief) I'm not strong enough to handle it. I do try to replace my bad habits and unconscious behaviors and thinking patterns with positive ones, and this creates inner struggling. When I don't feel peaceful, there is this background worrying that things are wrong. That work is going horrible, and I'm not good enough to fix things. I remind myself that I have fixed a lot, and work is only a 10th as stressful as is used to be, but I'm still very dramatic about that 10 percent. I want an effortless perfection, one that takes a lot of effort to get there, but then everything runs smoothly and problems are dealt with when they occasionally arise. I don't know how unreasonable this expectation is, but it does require every single member of my team working toward the same goal. My struggle is navigating this while also battling my own demons and irritability. This struggle is a strange loop, in that it feeds my demons and also grounds them. I feel stuck in this battle, because husband refuses to sell the salon for the sake of my own mental well being. I would have to divorce him and run away, or ride this out-- the only two options of getting out of this. When I was off for 30 days during covid-shutdown, I felt no struggle besides the occasional tiff with husband… I found myself again and I liked who I was. He's gone already as the stress of work returned. Not gone, but not as bright. I'm a slave to work, and it does suck the light out like a vacuum. This all hinges on the belief that work is hard and stressful, and that I'm not good enough to handle it.

Yeah, hard to tell if it's some ptsd effect or physical... Is there like a nurse or counsellor you can talk to?

What makes you think this feeling is one of dying? Is this true or is it some sort of ocd obsessive thinking?

Exercise: Suffering I have experienced forms of suffering, such as: bad self esteem in school- was bullied a lot from middle school on, and had no friends from that time until I went to college. Then I realized homosexuality and was alienated from my dogmatic christian family. Thank god I had my mom, who also had her own awakening around the same time I did….actually she beat me to it and gave me the space for it to manifest. Thanks mom!! Suffering does not drag on continuously, thankfully there are also moments of clarity, love, completeness, and contentedness. Its interesting, I do not feel suffering in much of my life outside work, unless I'm at home thinking about work. Work brings 99% suffering, even though there are many things going on at home like termite damage in house and a depressed, possibly bipolar husband. Much energy is spent thinking about work. Home seems like a cake-walk. I meet this suffering by whining, avoiding, tantrums, covering, compartmentalizing, obsessing, hating, loving, questioning. Possibly running to an alternate form of suffering. The core of experience of my emotional pain? Fear of uncertainty. I'm scared of the unknown, every bit as scared as when I used to love it. I still love uncertainty on a great roller coaster or amazing cinematic experience. The unknown could also bring pain, and I'm obsessively scared of pain. Even seeing that pain is self inflicted, that fear remains. It exists because i believe in it. Sorry, I love beliefs. Kind of addicted to them, in a way that I don't mind identifying with them. They're beautiful. And they make a wonderful excuse for many things. Such as not letting go of them. An unnoticed suffering would be: maybe what I'm doing to my body, since I don't think long term and only about what I see right now, which is not immediate changes from how it's treated. I endure it because… its inevitable. A cultural-matrix self will inevitably suffer, like the best kind of art. Culture itself is ART. I definitely see the manifestation of suffering. It's built on the foundation of self-doubt and emptiness. Of want. Of believing thought. I get nothing out of this suffering, except perhaps the dopamine rush of bliss when the suffering ends and I feel peace once more. I become disinterested in everything except how much my life sucks in relation to what is bringing suffering. I'm very dramatic.

then who are you? Forget for now any deep existential might-be answers. I'm just asking you what is your immediate analysis of yourself.

((Reading music, or you can listen to it before reading to settle the mind)) Exercise: Self-Doubt (kind of went into free-flow writing with this one… sorry if it feels disconnected) I have an aversion to inauthenticity. Almost Ocd-like, so much so that in social situations I can't stand not being authentic. The problem is, I run a service industry business and I'm not always authentically happy, cheerful and sweet. I detest that I can't be this way- what's expected of me- at all times. Now… many of the times when I'm not being authentic, it's actually a cover-up because I don't feel like its ok to be authentic. So then I do silly things that are in many ways self-sabotage. All of these I judge myself for later. I don't feel enough.. Good enough, smart enough, strong enough, loving enough, witty enough, fun enough, silly enough… list goes on and on. I don't feel enough. I don't feel enough. Marijuana returns feeling. That's one of its gravitational pulls. I feel more authentic in a Marijuana dream. I feel like my childlike self. I miss my childlike self. That sense of wonder returns. I stopped feeling it when sober. I miss it when its not there. I don't feel enough. I don't feel like I am enough. That 'I' alone is better than all the shit I use-- to try and make everything better. I am covering myself up in some twisted way of also looking for myself. The cultural way of seeking is always 'out there'. Actually, I'm right here. And always have been. No I am not the same on the outside as I am inside. There are many guards up. Many many. So many, and I've been tearing them down for years already. I'm so extremely guarded. I miss childhood. I miss innocence. These guards are for others but also myself. I guard myself from peace, and from letting go. Do I enjoy this? Why else would I do it if I don't enjoy it? I doubt that I am enough. And that I'm good. I judge myself very harshly. Many times I hate myself. Many times, I can't believe I'm so fucking awesome. But… I'm talking about a hologram named Justin. Who I identify as. I'm not claiming I've stopped identifying as Justin.. But I also see it. My self-doubt comes in not knowing who I am, if I'm not Justin. But immediately the answer arises, I'm me regardless. I can 'be' Justin but he's not exclusive. I have proof of this, because every single night I am someone else. Daytime Justin and night time Justin are so extremely different (yet familiar), I cannot ever say that they are the same. Therefore every night I have experiences of being someone else than I claim to be in the "real world". One thing remains: I still ALWAYS am ME. I'm fucking me. Regardless. And I love alternate experiences. However, they don't define. I don't know who I am but I can tell you one thing: Myself. Yes someone might be surprised if they suddenly could see into my mind and heart. I don't exhibit boundless joy and energy like I used to. Again, I miss my childlike exuberance. It means that I'm not as authentic on the outside and I am on the inside, when I'm not even fully authentic inside. (Sidenote: inside of what? I already know I'm not (just) body, so inside of what? Is there as such thing as inside?) another sidenote: this condition came long before my habitual marijuana usage. Losing religion to homosexuality was a major factor. Yes some outwardly aspects of myself are fake. But the weird thing is I abhor being fake. And at the same time I tell myself that I have to fake being nice and happy all the time because its expected of me as a business owner. This is hard to wrap my head around if its just a belief or not, because how could it not be true? I don't know if I would feel better if my outsides and insides matched. When I focus in on this background sense of uncertainty, I feel: that I'm not good enough, that I should be better, that everything would be better if I was better. I am ashamed when I don't know. I was brought into my trade completely green, and one of the biggest challenges was not knowing something. It froze me solid. Inexperience killed me. This was a huge catalyst to self improvement and brought me to this forum. at the heart of this feeling: I still look outside for validation and love.

@Zigzag Idiot Wow schadenfreude... Of course I am familiar with this but never knew there was a word for it (culturally speaking). Yes I remember as a kid I would feel joy when kids cry and throw tantrums, and also when they get punished. Of course now it's just annoying lol. I never knew why I felt that way and maybe some suffering arose due to feeling bad about feeling that way... As an adult, I feel this way when people get in trouble for doing something wrong, like speeding, running red-light, are jerks about wearing masks in current situation, are Karen's and get shut down, etc.

@Nahm nice art. @Arcanus you are giving it power, not any outside influences. Who cares what people used to think about you? Their memory is just as faulty and deceiving as the next. Besides, who doesn't love a good redemption story? You do you, and do it with love. Everything will click around that.

Feeling Trapped, Suffering, and Struggling Chapter Three:35-39 3:35-36 A common 'disorder' within all cultures is the feeling of being trapped. This manifests in many ways. (In a very physical sense, I can think of the time-old story of growing up in a place and dying there. Not exploring something beyond. Feeling trapped in a town, school, job, etc. Sure I've dealt with this a lot, still do. Luckily I also manifest contentedness and love.) 3:37 This is talking about (even after seeing suffering for what it is ) we choose to feel and endure it. We choose by not confessing its true. Nearly all forms of emotional suffering is due to cultural assumptions. This book should remedy this, but I expect its still important to confess to our intentional victimization. 'Between grief and nothing, I will take grief' --William Faulkner 3:38-39 ( I was thinking about this earlier. Humans struggle non-stop. Even when there's time of peace, something is going on even subtly in the background. There's really not true peace as long as one is the cultural matrix.) Struggling emerges from the constant back and forth of mental suffering and replacing that with positives. ( Its funny…positives, negatives, revolving, like thought is some kind of battery? an imaginary battery that fuels an imaginary self….in imagination lol) Your Own Experiences of These Consenquences Chapter Three:40-47 Exercise: Emptiness Read book for questions: A: When I run into feelings of Emptiness, I tend to call it an incompleteness. I don't feel whole. I'm fucked up and missing out on perfection. I feel alone, misunderstood, and scared of isolation. I don't feel real. I want to be real and validated. I deal with them by lashing out. Backsliding. Unconscious eating. Escapism. Filling the void in my being. Covering up. Denial. (That being said, I do look a lot of it straight in the face. Marijuana helps with that.) These feelings can encompass the whole chest area and upper stomach, and extending up to the throat, with a tightening feeling, but also a sense of breaking apart or crumbling. A dramatic feeling of dying. I've isolated the feeling of incompleteness. It is not always there, but tends to arise in tangent with self-doubt. Not seeing that I am all and enough. Not content with truth. When I face this, I tend to decide to work on such a thing 'later' and then go and smoke pot to enjoy my next hour. (sad but true… or is it only culturally sad wink wink) The feeling would have been absent before whatever caused it because I definitely do not feel this always, or at least its not constantly in awareness. Keeping busy fills it. I literally won't sit still, probably because of it. Pot makes keeping busy more fun. Yes I see what I'm saying here. What is at the core of the feeling of emptiness? I don't feel real. I want to be real and validated. I want to exist and matter. And be remembered.

@QandC that's a very wild generalisation...