seeking_brilliance

@winterknight @winterknight is there an observation taking place (independent of a self) or only thoughts of an observation? To give up observing seems impossible, even when aknowliging that there is no I to observe. Self inquiry has proven difficult to grasp, because I find it hard to identify with this feeling of 'me'. I'm just so used to it I guess, I can't really point to it. But for the most part it feels like this 'I' operates from the head, behind the eyes. I am so open to believing this is not the case, especially because there is no I to operate. So this is what I am to focus on and question? It doesn't really feel like me, it just feels like where I hear thoughts and see surroundings. The problem is I can't really seem to pinpoint the feeling of me enough to question it, even though this (arbitrary) life is lived very much from the viewpoint of "me", even after seeing through the lie of it. Hmm... Well even though I feel "stuck in my head", when body sensation arise, I feel them as me for sure, like when the tummy is gurgling or heart beating fast. So these I can question as 'me' and realize they cannot be me, they are in awareness only, right?

@winterknight would the mantra/affirmation "just observe" be good for letting go, or does this falsely imply an observer?

When I get lucid, one of my favorite things to do is find a random dream character to engage conversation with, ask pre-selected questions, or just to see what random things they may respond with. Their answers range from hilarious to downright creepy. As if sometimes they don't want to be engaged, and sometimes you find a real talker. Sometimes they become withdrawn and irritated, and sometimes they are very exuberant and open. Kind of sounds like Samuel in real life, but that's not where this post is going... There are different experiments you can do while engaging in conversation with dream characters: Using it as direct communication with your subconscious, asking questions that may be revealing to certain topic you are working on in personal development. Play around with their sense of existence. This one is very intriguing to me, because often times when pointing out that this is just a dream, or that this is not real, many dream characters lash out and assure you that it is. There are cases of dream characters saying things like, "I'm dreaming you." But these are less common, from what I have read. I have personally experienced the Angst when revealing the illusion to a dream character, and I have also had others agree with me that it is a dream. One thing I struggle with is do my dream characters, my creations(as I assume them to be) , truly think they are real? Or is it just a bunch of false memories implanted into them when needed. Just to laugh and see what wacky and sometimes creepy things your sub conscious may spit out at you when asking dream characters a particular question. I have also noticed that I have no inhibitions to go up to any dream character, sometimes even imposing on their personal space, and engage them in conversation. Yet when awake (whatever that means), I am socially awkward and have to force myself. The reason I bring this up is because for the last few days, I've considered if I would go up to a random person in this world, and ask them some random question just to see what random answer might come out. Asking something in either reality seems closely similar, in regards to how random or not- random the responses are, if all is truly one(zero, whatever). But I can't bring myself to do it, just yet. Perhaps it's ego holding me back or some other force I have yet to realize. Would love to hear any accounts of speaking to dream characters and the responses. Unfortunately Samuel doesn't keep a good dream journal, so I'll have to remember or try to find one already written, or just wait till my next lucid dream. I'll keep ya'll updated...

@Dodo actually I feel anxiety quite often in dreams, but only when I don't know I'm dreaming and still identify with the story. ..... Hmm sounds familiar to something....

Last night, I partially woke up and then back to sleep... Next thing I knew I was sitting on a couch with my brother and my mom was on another couch across the room. She didn't believe I was dreaming, so I asked her what her birthday is (Aug 17). She replied Incorrectly (June 20), but out of curiosity, I wondered if she knew my brother's and my birthdays, which she both answered correctly. Then she incorrectly answered my dad's birthday.

Funny this happened last night. I was also in a semi lucid dream (which lost lucidity) and was going to take a shower and started hearing my poem voice speaking to me out of the bathtub. It was cool at first, but then turned creepy, so I went to get my dad and sure enough he heard the voices too. So not angelic voices but still kind of similar. Um... I wouldn't give too much credit to angels unless you acknowledge that it is still within Maya and nothing within Maya is real.

@winterknight after full realization, could you see yourself running a business in the service industry or would it be to difficult to stay in character for 8-10 hours a day?

Perfect! I love that answer so much. Ok so it seems my two top things to do (in context of being the Seeker) is to calm the mind through psychoanalysis, and then self inquiry to solidify in mind that which I truly am, which is beyond story, only to find that this was the case all along. Bring it on!

@winterknight well thanks for humoring me, that was actually the answer I was looking for. And also... Funny thing, I'm exactly the type to ask how old a building in a dream was, knowing that any answer isn't necessarily true, but it does provide context to the story. I never knew if what we call enlightenment is when one stops identifying as the thinker, or if that is the beginning of the journey. So you seem worried that your answer will hinder growth, but that's this is actually great news to hear.

@Serotoninluv I have. I don't stick with it though, and you're supposed to do it religiously. I learned a really good one though. Which is every time you see the sky, you do a RC,which for me is to count my fingers. That way every time you see a sky in a dream, you are likely to do a reality check and realize you are dreaming. Well this worked the first or second night, but I didn't become lucid. There was a dream character who asked to be called lord skye, and he even spelled out the name for me, but I never put two and two together. As soon as I awoke and reviewed the dream did I laugh and slap myself for not getting it. They say Mild is the best method and works often for me. You say a mantra that the next thing you see will be a dream, or something similar to that phrase. Works good with wearing an eye mask so that truly the next thing you see will be a dream. Other times I just spontaneously realize and I'm sure it's a combination of the practices and just really strong desire.

@winterknight Oh yes, I get that for sure. I was more interested in the mind's point of view, as that is more relative to this one over here (which I know technically there is no here or there). When did @winterknight 's mind stop believing it was the thinker of thoughts? I just am trying to figure out if the realization comes early, but it may take so and so years to actually stop identifying, and if this is what self-inquiry is for.

@winterknight at what point in your seeking did you stop identifying as the thinker?

Here we are still climbing that mountain

You can pick one

@winterknight What does "previous life" mean, and does this imply a soul (or memory bank)?

Update: I'm still processing some things. Had some insights that at least shed some light on who I am not. I am not a thinker or a doer. In fact there's no me to do those things, only a bunch of me-thoughts pretending they are in control. Much thanks to @winterknight and my guide on liberationunleashed.com for pointing me towards this. (and @Telepresent too ) This video is unrelated, but wanted to share it because I think there's some beauty in the juxtaposition between words (language) and the visual representations:

@winterknight I'm sure these insights are very basic, but they sure feel good when it happens. Enjoy the ride they say.

@winterknight I hope I don't embarrass myself, but here goes. Please correct me! I have seen that all thoughts are me-thoughts, because all thoughts are about how this thought relates to "me". In this sense, everything I view around me (more thoughts) and touch and feel (even more) are included in this false sense of self, as me-thoughts. That means this entire reality I perceive is me, the false I. Not saying reality itself, whatever that is, but just the one these me-thoughts are thinking about.

@winterknight what was your work schedule like for the past few years pursuing this? Are you married? Kids? If not, would you see yourself getting this far this soon with wife or kids / busy schedule? I know you've mentioned many times before you do not identify with Maya, but for the shits and giggles, do you like Maya? Or at least does that body's stream of me - thoughts like Maya? Do they still get some kind of excitement for it? Have you had mystical experiences?

Gotcha, thank you.... Yeah "I" feel sorry for them (wow that's Meta)

@winterknight what happens if this particular stream of me-thoughts does not... Whatever... Become enlightened or whatever... Is it important to do this or is it just kindu of (or very) cool?

@winterknight is there, at any point, a thinker of thoughts?

It would probably be of no use to you at this point, (whatever the hell that means). But it covers alot of topics from quantum physics and interpreting the books of jed McKenna. But that's still only a small part of what it covers, and I'm only about halfway through. It's a free e-book on Amazon and not short. He uses an analogy of being in the theater, which is a play on Plato cave. ( There are the ones who are (falsely assumed) stuck in chains and identify with the movie being played, and there are those who have stood up and wandered to the back of the theater. He says that all teaching or what not is just happening in the back of the theater. Then there are those that exit the theater altogether. He likens this to entering the cocoon stage of becoming a butterfly, whereas emerging as a butterfly is enlightenment. The ones identifying with the movies are larvae, and the ones who wander the theater are caterpillars. Of course I probably screwed that up all too hell so of course the book explains it better. Well anywho the only use it would probably be of to you is to expand your mind on certain ways to express what you have learned (and unlearned), not that you really need any help with that.

I know you aren't asking me over here, but kind of reminds me of synesthesia

@winterknight Thank you so much for helping to evolve the understanding of serious seekers on this forum. I am selfish and want you to keep this thread going forever! Especially as more questions arise. So funny the mob mentality when you first opened this thread.... hopefully everyone's off topic banter on here won't get this thread closed. Please bear with us for at least a few more days, I can really sense the rise in understanding already across the forum, and my own. Conversing with you, and my guide on liberation unleashed forum, "I" had a glimspe into no-self (no thinker) the other night. I know its only the beginning, but so glad its begun. Oh, have you read "Butterflies are free to fly", by Stephen Davis?