seeking_brilliance

Those who are in touch with their nightly dreaming experiences, will begin to notice many correlations to this and their waking lives, what we call THIS.... all of THIS that IS appearing we call reality, and distinctly distinguish it from our nightly dreams. This is the huge trap of humanity throughout its history, and it is a mistake to assume that it is not all ONE and the same. We need to ? stop ? discarding the dreaming life as secondary. What a ignorant assumption that either reality is real! We (humanity) don't even know what real is! And yet, dreams are a bit distinct, and although they are appearing as THIS, they also serve as a beautiful reflection of what IS. An awesome guide. Completely free....unless you count the necessary dream work as payment. This thread is about how dreams and waking IS the SAME, and how dreams are a beautiful reflection of THIS (being THIS at the same time) and how this reflection is the most beautiful art. Please note that I am not saying that 'dream' is what THIS is. It is a beautiful art that is a pointer to what THIS IS. Perhaps nothing more. So first let's get it all out of the way, ways in which dream life if different than waking life: The laws of physics only apply when it serves the story. Beyond that, they are fair game. Time is only linear when it serves the story. Identification is only with the dream self when it serves the story. Memory and continuity is fluid, and completely serves the story. Do you see a trend here? You can probably say this about many aspects of dreaming life, so I'll let you discover those for yourself. Now, to the good stuff. Ways in which dreaming is a reflection of waking life. (not saying they are separate experiences, just that they are paradoxically the same and different, together. We'll start with the easiest to spot. The experience is exactly the same between both 'worlds'. In waking life, we experience with our senses : sight, hearing, taste, touch, and smell - - and emotions. In other words, we experience in thought. In dreaming life, we also experience with our five senses and emotions. These senses tend to be a bit muted from waking life, which understandably creates the illusion that they are lesser than. However I propose that they are not lesser, but transcendental of our waking senses, in a 'world' where physics only serve the story. At other times the senses are more heightened than in waking life, and again, you could probably say it's because it serves the story. Everything IS consciousness. If I hadn't been a vivid dreamer / oneironaut (lucid dreamer with the intent of self discovery), I don't think I could have ever understood this saying which is often mentioned on this site and many others. Outside of some enlightenment realization (or Remembering Self) I really don't see how this could have been fathomed in my mind. But dreaming is the perfect teacher for this. Especially when lucid dreaming, you can really walk around basking in your own divine(?) consciousness, interacting with objects and speaking to dream characters, all the while knowing that this is all you. Everthing appears as separate, otherwise there would be no story. But nothing is separate, and it's absolutely undeniable. No woo-woo necessary. Any esteemed scientist will tell you this. Of course they won't take it as far as describing waking life. Dreams are paths to self discovery. Waking life contains many paths to self discovery. Dream as art. (From https://courses.lumenlearning.com/boundless-arthistory/chapter/what-is-art/) Art may be characterized in terms of mimesis (its representation of reality), expression, communication of emotion, or other qualities.... (sounds like dreams to me... The principles of art include movement, unity, harmony, variety, balance, contrast, proportion and pattern. The elements include texture, form, space, shape, color, value and line.... (interesting how these words can also be used to describe experience, aka waking life and dreaming life) art therapy is generally understood as a form of therapy that uses art media as its primary mode of communication.... (literally, the dream is therapy, and uses the media (the dream) as mode of communication.) Art, in its broadest sense, is a form of communication. It means whatever the artist intends it to mean, and this meaning is shaped by the materials, techniques, and forms it makes use of, as well as the ideas and feelings it creates in its viewers . Art is an act of expressing feelings, thoughts, and observations....(sounds like dreams to me) 5. To expand on number 2, dream characters are very diverse and seemingly intelligent. When not lucid, we mistake these characters as real people and all the fear emotions manifest in dire situations. When lucid, you realize these characters are yourself, and whether you fear yourself is up to you. This exact description has been said of becoming enlightened by many. As if enlightenment is equivalent to becoming lucid in a dream. I will add more to this list as they arise. Please feel free to add your own ideas well. Sweet dreams!

Perhaps one of the issues is that you are trying to feel love. What does it feel like? You mentioned that you have felt bliss, but are you mistaking blissful feelings for feeling love? Perhaps love induces blissful feelings, sure. But love is love. It doesn't need you to feel anything.

I kept waiting for the rudeness... you seem to be really bad at it.

Does this have to do with, for example, the types of thoughts humans perceive is why I would pick up a toothbrush and clean my teeth, as opposed to a dog who could care less if theirs are rotting and falling out?

(The following post is 'non-dual-lite' for beginners:) We tend to separate ourselves from nature, as a species. We say, "we are going to take a walk in nature." "We are going out into nature." Or that "nature is perfect." Except what we don't realize is that when we say these things, we are drawing distinctions between nature and mankind. Such as nature is perfect, and mankind is imperfect. When we say these phrases, we are unconsciously separating ourselves from nature. Hang on a second, mankind IS nature. This is one of those hilariously "hidden" truths that we tend to forget. Mankind is nature and all of its doings and imaginings are part of nature. There's no distinction between that, and plants and animals acting according to Perfect Nature. (Side note, do plants act? They grow, but is that an action, or is that ____?) Yes even all of our destruction of nature, building more than we need, and poisonous pollution, is perfect nature. All of us have honorary roles in the story of planet Earth. And planet Earth has a role in the solar system. And the solar system to the Galaxy and Beyond. So relax. Surrender. Enjoy (or not!). Everything is happening naturally.

That's awesome. How did it affect your waking life? Robert Waggoner talks about something similar in his book: Lucid dreaming Gateway to the inner self, where he talks about becoming pure light. In another dream, he asked to experience his "feeling tone" which casts down upon him from the sky and becomes one with it. Great book

I think you could benefit from The Work by katie Byrons... I can also link you to a facebook group that the moderator can guide you through a session if you'd like.

Hi, I'm glad you are enjoying your dream life. I almost told a person as well, that we were lucid dreaming together. But i found out that either they were just a representation in my mind, or IF they were dreaming with me, they are too unconscious in waking life to recall it. So whatever on that. Its fun though. Yes an object will change if you look away and back at it, but I have found that holding an intention of what the object should look like will keep it consistent. So when it went from patterned, back to basic again, it is because you held the intention in mind that it should have looked basic like when the first time you looked at it. In this way you can look away and back again, changing objects at will. If it makes you feel any better, higher levels of serotonin is believed to be linked to vivid dreaming, especially lucid dreaming, so I think your receptors are just fine from your MDMA experience. If you'd like to nurse them back to health a little though, you can try taking HTP before bedtime, which is a precursor to serotonin. There are lots of other foods and supplements that can support a healthy neuro-network.

haha, I when i have to pee, I'l go and urinate in my dreams... It feels real, but just an unending flow. Luckily i don't lose bladder control in bed.

I've experienced this, more often as a kid. Some of these times it seems the reaction in the dream was preemptive to what was about to happen in real life, or in other words I will dream that someone is rubbing their hair in my face, to wake up in time to see my brother coming at me with a feather. Have you ever experienced anything like that?

Are there physiological reactions when this fear arises? Hot, clammy forehead or anything like that?

@FoxFoxFox I don't disagree with these elements of nightly dreaming, they certainly serve many functions within the psyche. I guess I don't want to imply there is any meaning to the similarities between dreaming and waking life, I just think its fun to talk about. If I feel inclined, I'll start a thread on the functions of dreaming for the pshyche.

especially with the internet as the perfect way to spread these ideas, we really are witnessing a new age in spirituality. (oops I didn't even mean to do that lol)

7. Identity inside and outside of the dream. Inside the dream, our identity is fluid and can change at any given time to serve the story. Most of the times we are the dream self. A somewhat near representation of what we think our waking selves are, but never quite the same. Not without a certain degree of lucidity. There's always something different about the dream self compared to the waking self, and much of this comes down to false memories. False memories are one of the most interesting topics I am excited to explore in my dream work, because memories give us (although somewhat falsely) our sense of self and identity. These false dream memories can be created instantly on the spot, to serve the story, and can be so complex that there's no reason not to fall for it. Memories give us our sense of self and identity. Are you OK with the fact that you are so easily fooled? Inside and outside the dream, we mostly do not see ourselves in third perspective, except sometimes within dreams, or an OBE in waking. So we typically go about the dream not even knowing what we look like unless we look into a mirror and register what is reflected back at us. On a side note: This is the same in waking life and even when we look in the mirror, the sight of our reflection is filtered through countless biases within the mind. What you see is labeled a million times over and an image forms of what you look like. But we see what we want to see, whether we think we do or not. And being locked in this perspective can be very limiting. How can we ever see ourselves for who we really are, without looking within? The answer cannot be found (only) by looking without, because we will never see ourselves in third person. There is only first person. We can achieve third person in a dream , but it would still be a biased reflection, and it would still be first person since the entire DREAM is first person! So the only way to truly know oneself is to look Within. Once one realizes that everything "without" is filtered through the same matrix as our personal reflections, they realize that looking without IS looking within. So we are locked in these perspectives and we tend to accept that whoever we are at the moment is Who we Are. Except this is always a lie because who we think we are in the moment is an image pieced together by a matrix of thoughts, beliefs, and memories. We can't know who we are in the moment until we drop all of these things and witness. Anyway, this carries over into dreaming life, as we always tend to take the current dream self as ourself. But a dream worker knows that the self cannot be contained within any one thing inside the dream. The dream IS the self. And I'm not even trying to talk about enlightentment here.... But what is a dream self? Do we only dream this way, because it is habitual to how we live? Would it ever be possible to dream about not being the dream-self, but being the dream itself? This is something I intend to experiment with as I continue my dream work.

Would someone be willing to create a thread with the intent of providing personalized guidance to young seekers? You could choose how many seekers to guide at one time, and could easily juggle a few at a time... You could form your own unique way of guiding, but I would assume you could evaluate 'where a seeker is' with a series of questions or taking time to get to know them. Your guidance will help uncover blocks in the seeker's path, and is not really meant to provide all the answers that the seeker cannot search for himself. Or whatever you wanna do of course. I think a thread like this would be fun and constructive, and also a great way to use this modern day library of Alexandria (forum) to evolve your teaching skills. I know there could be an issue with misdirection, but I really think it would be minor - and perhaps educational for you, the guide, to be challenged on your teachings from time to time. As long as it doesn't spark any nonduality wars of course! And surely any guides would be sage enough not to get offended or triggered by any criticisms, right? I myself feel nowhere near ready to do a thread like this, but would love to sign up for guidance. I tend to benefit from the teacher/student dynamic, probably because it gives me someone to please, and I'm a people pleaser. And yes, someday I might transcend the need to please others, and this dynamic will no longer be effective. But for now I would greatly enjoy it and I think I'm just spinning wheels doing this alone. Please reserve me a slot in your openings for students. Thank you ?

Bump with edit

I can't answer this, but I would think self inquiry would cover both mindfulness and concentration

I have a million books I haven't finished, could you give me a hint on what this alternative perspective might be? What is your perspective of dreaming?

6. This body is a form of consciousness. The dream body is a form of consciousness. When identified with the dream, I believe to be that which is the dream body. When I become lucid, or am recalling the dream afterwards, I know that I am not (only) the dream body, but the entire dream itself. There's still the perspective from the dream body and complete knowing that I AM the dream.

It was an amazing movie

I'm sorry, I'm bad at keeping secrets. But I still poo poo myself...

Haha thank you that was my point .... But you didn't call it poo poo

That's a good idea. Perhaps there should be a thread on what your idea of love is. Could you start us out?

@Mikael89 I do agree that saying everything is love is too confusing, cuz then it's always followed up with, well you don't know what love is. What you think is love, isn't love. Ok, then let's use a different word. Solved. Can we stop making threads about it now lol