Wisebaxter

@TheAvatarState Ah yeah for sure man, you wouldn't want to go to an extreme with that philosophy. I find It's more just a tool you can use to bring yourself back from already existing extremes of behaviour or desire, to bring you back to the middle road a bit. If you're overly aroused by the opposite sex it could help, especially as porn objectifies the female body. My porn habit causes me to stare at women a lot in the street and think about banging them, because I'm so used to seeing them naked and in that light. So when I started saying to myself 'remember, they're just lumps of flesh,' this helped me to mentally put their clothes back on them and stop being so distracted. But we're all different so this approach might not be for you. You'll never get rid of your sexual desire through this technique anyway as it can't rewrite your biology. It just puts things in a bit more perspective and helps with obsessive behaviour. Maybe I made it sound too extreme at first. Maybe its not about seeing the human body as vile, more about seeing it for what it is, not just as a sexual amusement park.

@VictorB02 When you're ready to stop smoking cannabis, if at all, you will stop it. Trying to force this to happen through neurotic tendencies, will only cause more suffering. You're not in control of anything, at least your ego isn't, so using the ego to resist what's happening will make the matter worse. Check out Leo's video on free will vs determinism to get the low down on this. There's nothing wrong with smoking cannabis. There's no good or bad, only thinking makes it so. Stop resisting what is and just follow the path that seems right to you for now. Resistance is the thing to avoid. There's nothing to say weed will not help you in the long run. Anything you do will help you in the long run as there is always a lesson you're being taught by the universe. the beauty of it is that there are no wrong moves. If it is a phase, then so be it, only time will tell. As for moving up the spiral, I'm a little confused about your train of thought. Are you saying that you think that smoking weed will keep you locked into a stage? Also, are you saying you think weed is a stage green tool or something? So you have to accept that to progress? I wouldn't read so much into weed's potential effect on your journey up the spiral. Your progression will be more based upon how open minded you can be to new ideas, the kind of practices you're doing, your capacity to love unconditionally and to see the bigger picture without judging. Also, I think you can move up the spiral without fully mastering a stage. You just might not integrate the new stage fully. For example you can be a bit green, a bit orange, a bit turquoise. It's never as simple as saying someone is just one particular stage.

@TheAvatarState I think that watching porn without jerking it was a really intelligent move. What you're basically doing there is learning to look at it and detach it from the feeling of desire. It's the association you have between the two that might have made things hard (no pun intended). If you happen to do it again, maybe use deep mindfulness to watch your body state along with your mental perceptions to see what's there. Observing the machine as it were, Ouspensky style. Consider why it is that watching the stuff actually makes you horny. One think I heard a monk say once when asked about avoiding sexual desires was that he views the human body as essentially quite grotesque, lol, which is true when you think about it. All those dangly bits, holes surrounded by flaps of skin and hair, most of it smelling a bit pungent. Try switching up perspectives whilst watching it and see where that takes you. This will be the law of attraction at work. Well done for getting this far by the way

Thanks for posting man. That sounds on the whole like a very positive trip, especially the experience of pure 'love' you had. I'm listening to the song you posted and it really is beautiful. I can almost imagine how listening to it would have made you feel in that frame of mind as I experienced something similar myself on my trip. It's great that this was a new experience for you as well. Awesome to get something unique from the trip. Do you think you'll be able to integrate this into your life a bit? I've been asking myself the same question. The memory of the feeling is still so vivid, so this is helping me to view the world through a slightly different lens as I keep recalling it. Funny you had that experience with the cat as I had one too which was really similar and our cats look very similar too lol. Mine's female, but ginger. She hopped onto my lap when I was tripping and looked into my eyes, seeming to smile at me, the most warm, loving smile. At that moment she looked like the most beautiful, regal creature I'd ever seen. Great that you had some ego death too. Have you had that before at all? Sorry to hear you're feeling glum. Be kind to yourself, relax and remember you'll bounce back soon. I find a nice bath usually sorts me out. Well done for going ahead with this trip too, despite your reservations. You're a warrior

Ok so when doing a certain type of meditation you're supposed to watch thoughts going by, but when I watch for thoughts I stop having any. The only time I have thoughts is when I forget what I'm supposed to be doing, then when awareness returns I'm like 'oh, I had a thought.' But I didn't watch it as such, it's more like I became it as awareness left. Is this a normal phenomena? Can anyone here actually 'watch' their thoughts consciously?

@Preetom What is it about thoughts that makes them illusory? As opposed to something else which is real? Couldn't my experience of this moment be an illusion? Is that what we're trying to get to with enlightenment, to attain a state of consciousness where we see through this dream state into reality? Some gurus say that the experience of awakening is nothing special, that it's here right now, others say that there are unfathomable, unspeakable truths to be uncovered. I suppose all we can do is go deep into being and see for ourselves. I'm certainly over-thinking things. If thought is an illusion then I'm never gonna get it like this am I. The closest I can come to something pure is just letting go of seeking. Complete surrender. Is this the path? I suppose thought is better for describing the path than it is the destination @Anton Rogachevski So it's a state of not knowing, that's what we're after? That certainly feels good to me. The subject\object relationship dies and there is just experience. But is there something beyond this? Once we go deeper?

if all is one and thoughts are just a modulation of awareness, why is there so much emphasis in spirituality on detaching from thoughts and thoughts being illusion? If all is one then surely thoughts are as much a part of the whole as anything else and are no more of an illusion than awareness itself. Why would I identify with awareness as opposed to a thought if ultimately they are comprised of the same thing?

@Jack River Thanks Jack. I'm going to soak in your words fully and then come back to you with any questions I have. There's bound to be a few

Ramana Marharshi talked about the true self residing in 'the heart on the right,' and that thoughts travel from the heart up to the head to become the 'I' thought. But if we're not our bodies, how can we say the true self resides in the heart?

@DrewNows Look for whatever it is, in my experience, that's unchanging? But that just seems like awareness. I can find this easily. Is there something more? Also, my thoughts must also be comprised of my true Self as the knowing of them is always there and this knowing is awareness. So perhaps that's the answer - it's awareness, the knowing, this is my true self. But most teachers suggest there's more that can be discovered after years of meditation, self enquiry etc. That's what I'm interested in. I just can't understand where the hell that is as all I can experience is awareness. Or should I say all awareness can experience, is awareness Perhaps the rest of the work is just reversing our programming, getting rid of the 'I' thought, the subject/object distinction, which is so ingrained.

@DrewNows Is it awareness becoming aware of itself?

@SOUL ok, I can dig that. You're saying that in a non-dual sense awareness is just another piece of the puzzle? It's no different from a thought or anything else. Rupert Spira says thought is a modulation of awareness so I can see how this makes sense. Then the true Self....this is different from awareness right? The heart on the right as Ramana Maharshi called it. @Anton Rogachevski It's easy to objectify awareness in this game isn't it? Can I ask you, is awareness the same as the true self? Or just another aspect of duality? Some people imply that everything is made up of awareness and others imply that there's something beyond that, some kind of primal nothingness. I'm gonna be tripping for the first time in a few days so I might have some answers then, but fancied a bit more jibber jabber in the meantime

@Jack River Right I think I'm getting this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that the self-loop largely arises from the 'perception' of a thought after the thought has occurred? So the best thing to do is just allow thoughts to pass unhindered and stay present? Like a river flowing unhindered. I can see how this would break the subject/object loop and stop you assuming you're the one watching your thoughts.

@OneLittleHumanMind Yes this is an interesting point that I hadn't considered, that wanting to let go of wants is indeed another want. At present there are still many wants that I feel attached to and that cause a level of suffering, but I'm able to experience a state of 'not wanting' when I remember to, and this feels very blissful. What would be more productive though, if, like you say, I can learn to accept wants when they're there and not attach to them. Otherwise I'm just hiding from them by moving into this state of 'not wanting.' This is definitely feeding into my false sense of self isn't it.

@SOUL Yeah we really have to watch those assumptions don't we. I love how just a simple investigation of the language we use can uncover them. It's just remembering to do it. Really helpful to have these assumptions pointed out by others. I think I can see what self enquiry is getting at. It's one thing to realise you're not the 'I' thought but to really live that, to let go of all of your old habits of falling back into it - maybe that's where the bulk of the work lies

@Inliytened1 Great, so this is what people mean by watching thoughts. Thought I was doing something wrong @Jack River @SoonHei Thank you guys. That's all very helpful. I'll read through what you've written a few times and contemplate things.

Amen to that

@Jack River Do you have any good methods for letting go of desires? For reprogramming yourself?

So memory, or our 'story' presents a challenge right? This was the video that really blew me away and made me realise how much 'wants' had seeped their way into my existence. Adya says in the video, imagine waking up in the morning with no 'wants.' That blew me away man.

@Jack River So what you're saying is, when an ego arises with its 'wants,' then thoughts will occur and take you away from your Nowness into concept land? Recently as a practice I've been nurturing a feeling of acceptance and letting go of wants, my story, anything that comprises an ego and this seems to shut my thoughts up like never before. It just feels very blissful and I can feel love growing inside of me. Is this a good route into enlightenment? It feels a bit like the state of 'Not Knowing' that Peter Ralston talks about.

@SoonHei thanks for taking the time to help me. Could I say then, that during meditation, when the 'I' thought vanishes and I just reside in pure being for however long, before thoughts return, I am in an enlightened state for that period? Is enlightenment just the continuation of this state?

@SoonHei That's a good mantra, I'm gonna use that one. Maybe work it into my Neti Net practice or something. I'm presuming this is something I haven't experienced yet, not just the awareness that can easily become an 'I' thought. One thing that confuses me about spirituality is....is it just awareness that's the goal? We focus on awareness with no thoughts and then we say 'aha - that's enlightenment. If I can stay in that place without thoughts I'm enlightened!' Or are we something more than awareness? Because awareness is all I can find. Teachers like Rupert Spira will say 'it's very simple, just focus on awareness,' whilst others will tell you that it takes 40 years to ride the Ox and experience non dual nothingness. If I'm something more than awareness, how do I access that?

@SoonHei I think I understand. There is no subject and object, just awareness. I think I get confused as when I become unconscious of what I'm supposed to be doing it feels like I just disappeared, until this thing called 'awareness' comes back. But this awareness that returns is really just another thought that says 'oh, I forget what I was supposed to be doing. There's a sense of 'me-ness to it, me returning. Maybe it's the return of the nefarious 'I' thought. When my mind is wandering without an observer it feels like I've disappeared, like awareness/the observer is gone, but I guess it hasn't, it's just lost sight of the thought that said 'I should be observing?' @zambize I'm wandering if this is really what we're after...to shut thoughts up by shining the light of awareness on them. But in that statement there's an assumption that thoughts themselves aren't composed of awareness, of the infinite self. In Non-Dual terms they have to be a part of this universal I, as far as I've heard. Rupert Spira says a thought is just a temporary modulation of awareness.

You're gonna nail this bro. Remember, if you fuck up, for any reason, rinse and repeat until you get it done. Be careful of self loathing or shame if you do weaken as I know from a long term addiction myself than this just keeps feeding into it and perpetuated the addiction. If you feel that you can handle it if things go wrong, paradoxically they're less likely to.