Jahmaine

Yeah I hear what you’re saying, but personally like I said in my message I think it’ll be of great value to the community as a whole, because Adeptus isn’t the only one thinking the stuff he’s saying; when things become black and white, we have the mini Leo’s on here that can’t think for themselves and brainlessly defend him and the other side could just recklessly criticise him without any rationale or understanding; so in the interest of aiding everyone I reckon it would be better in a video, they don’t need a phone call, this isn’t going to turn into some YouTube boxing. It’s just funny coz every time I put Leo like this he never responds and because he doesn’t it just leaves me to come to my own conclusions and in this case, as well as others, it’s because he can’t respond, he has nothing to say really that won’t make him look silly. Or he’s just a straight up coward. Can’t handle the heat and it’s actually quite shocking considering the audacity of which he carries himself sometimes, even if he is correct sometimes. He cares soo much about truth that he can’t be honest with himself. It’s typical of people like that; you know he’d be a good politician because he follows the same mentality- “if you can’t win the debate, don’t have it” - and he talks about truth, what a joker. I recommend he goes back watches his own video about life unfolding in phases and chapters - he ain’t getting through this one until he finally admits or deals with critiques - that’s why he’s stuck in this limbo that he’s in, so blatantly; how you going to make a course for the “real serious” seekers when you can’t even be honest with yourself. But as usual hes got nothing to say; change the subject, don’t wanna talk about it, pretend he’s too busy and whatever else he needs to tell himself to sleep at night, it’s actually an absolute joke and it would actually be funny if the platform and ramifications of it wasn’t so big, because directly and indirectly he’s teaching his followers to do the same and those not streetwise enough literally do the exact same, this forum has endless examples of it; but what’s his response to that “ its just like every other forum” ; disappointing doesn’t even describe that lack of responsibility and denial of integrity.

@Leo Gura why don’t you and @AdeptusPsychonautica just finally have a conversation with each other on video, everything can be addressed and you two can have a good conversation, can clear up things on both sides, genuinely as someone that’s observed you both, I reckon a real conversation from you two would be perhaps deeper and better for the community that it might first appear, your conversation would go beyond just criticisms. If you can spend 12 hours on TOE, you can give at least 1-3 for Adeptus, obviously you needn’t do anything and you can say it’s a waste of time and you’re too busy etc etc, but you’re clearly not too busy when you got time to be on here all day and doing back and fourths with people. Especially if you was interested in really doubling down your teachings like you say, if you really think Adeptus is misunderstanding, you’re wise enough to know he’s not alone, rather than hand waving it away and saying go watch this this and this first, it could be more beneficial to speak at the level you’re at now in a real time conversation, as you would if you was teaching people in person, even after that you could make a point and then explain if a more in depth explanation is needed then they can check out your video. It’s each to their own, but I really do think it would be of benefit, especially if you want to really make your points clear, show that’s it air tight, show that you know what you’re talking about and show that you can meet someone halfway (from your point of view) to aid them in a better understanding of yourself. If you think that you’re just giving time to a troll and you don’t want to, then this could be a tester, coz it’s not just any “troll” - he’s not talking in an illogical manner, he is be respectful, he is actually giving you a lot of leeway and is clearly open to understanding, when really and truly, your so called trolls, could really use your own approach and be very direct and blunt with you, to which you’d obviously just hand wave it away again. Just my view, but in the spirit of an actual debate and for the purpose of helping the community and showing where all other teachers aren’t or haven’t reached levels you have (by your own admission), why not go that extra step for your fellow humanity? Coz as much as you say you don’t care or whatever else, it’s this behaviour of avoidance and seemingly denial that will get you and this community here labelled as just an echo chamber and you being a gate keeper with all the answers that dare not be challenged, does the highest levels of awakening instruct you to do that? Just to denounce and dismiss soo called trolls or critiques? Genuine question. Look what it took for you to address Connor Murphy as an example. perosnally I just think that if you really had reached such levels you claims, you would be more than willing to address things, if anything you’d seek it out, coz truth comes out on top every time, so you got nothing to worry about, truth never changes. Only way I can see you sidestepping this really Is at a later point in life admitting (and I’m not saying you haven’t already) that you may have reached such levels, but clearly have no embodied it - you can see the fear and anxiety in your blogs, look at your own facial expressions and body language. Anyway, nothing personal just to clarify, but I really do feel a conversation between you two would be of great value. Give it some genuine consideration.

If so, is there any difference?

Thanks for your response, that's quite interesting. Ive recently tried the natural version and was awestruck and all the rest of it, but I am curious of the synthetic version in comparison, some of the Seri people where they have the toad, feel that the natural one has the spirit of the toad in it and reckon it's more effective, although naturally I don't think they've actually tried the synthetic so was just curious at any comparisons out there.

What the title says.

Whatever you need to tell yourself bro.

Well I wouldn’t use the word smart, I’d say not as comprehensive, if you understand what that means, but that’s just being pedantic really. Would you say you’re “smarter” than Leo? And what do you base your responses on when you respond to people on here? Is it not mainly Leo’s teachings? Do you not reference his work in your responses? Whether it’s true or not in the context you’re responding - by using his work as your frame of reference primarily and “moderating” the forum by “keeping people in check” to reinforce that - then yes that makes you a disciple. Would you disagree? Disciple - a follower or pupil of a teacher, leader, or philosopher. Comprehension - the ability to understand something. Smart - having or showing a quick-witted intelligence. Definitions from Oxford Languages. To me, the fact you’re taking it soo personal is precisely the point I’m talking about and puts exclamation marks on my original message.

Actually it’s not funny. My point being that from what I’ve observed, most of you act like that, look at mannerisms and choices of words and responses. You wouldn’t know you was talking to someone else, you’d think that it’s leo pretending to be mods; just usually, from my point of view, as I said, your comprehension levels seem to fall short in comparison to Leo. Causing a lot of the problems leo layed out for Nahm.

I think it was a good idea tbh, if anything Leo should consider demoting more of them, most seem out of touch and do the same thing Nahm got demoted for, they don’t meet people where they’re at and think they’re mini Leo’s and talk in a similarly condescending way and pass it off as if they’re just trying to be blunt and to the point with you, when really they’re full of it; the comprehension ability is not at the level you’d expect from a disciple of Leo. Need to bring some of these back down to earth; could even say the say with Leo, equally seen his disrespectful responses in a condescending manner which he just passes off as people being too dumb so it’s allowed; each to their own, can have your own ways of responding and dealing with people, but this forum becomes more of a platform where the peasants ask the masters questions, the group discussion and genuine consideration for meeting people where they’re at is lacking in my view. Prime example being the other day when someone was asking to explain how is it the case that others don’t exist when “I’m sitting here and you’re over there” - and Leo’s response was akin to “ awww does bwaby not understand, nawww does bwaby think Santa come thwough the chimney at night to drwop pwesents as well?” - yeah that’s great help (!) Leo can argue and say yeah he’s already explained it in detail in videos and suchlike- but by that logic then anything that’s ever been in his videos should never be spoken about here because he’s already done a video. I actually find it astonishing the level of denial and ability to take criticism from the moderators and Leo, no one’s perfect but the echo chamber here is strong and tbh leo by your own administration you’ve stated in that you would like to document someone going through the process of becoming enlightened, because we usually only see them after the fact; that would mean that 100% you would make mistakes and be wrong - because you’re not at the point that’s after the fact yet and you should definitely be more open to it, obviously stand your ground where you see fit, but come on man give it a rest; personally I reckon being more honest with yourself and other points of view would make you flourish moreso, you’d move out of this limbo phase your stuck in now, have your transformational dilemma and really unleash your abilities and talent on the next level. Take this how you want, hopefully not much for bwaby weo’s ego to handle, not gonna wun and hide in your admin/moderator forum, nawwww did baby weo prefer when his disciples not tell him about himself, does weo need a huggy wuggy to feel better. ? maybe I should remove this post, I don’t know if you’re mature enough to handle this yet. Go deal with your petty basic critiques for couple years first, you’re not ready for this level of self honesty yet. @Leo Gura

As a hypothetical, what would it appear like from the an external point of view? That said, also what do you think their own experience would be like? Going even further, is there such a limit that one can reach, as in, is there such a state that a human being or any being of form cannot transcend?

Yeah that makes sense, a non bias, akin to someone who takes both praise and critique the same. This post is just more a thought experiment, interested in what people’s perspectives are on this topic, especially our grand masters.

Yeah I understand that, but that doesn’t really answer my question(s). Unless what you’re saying is that someone that reached the “highest” state, would just be like an inanimate object? Or just acting very animalistic - like a pre-ego human. One of my question was what characteristics would they have from an external point of view, so if you don’t understand that, then I mean what would it look like to you “Tim” if you stumbled across a human being that was in such a state, what would your expectations be of how they would be interacting with you or the universe. Does that make more sense to you? also do you think there is a state that is absolute and cannot be “surpassed” per se.

Care to elaborate?

I’m not always talking in the absolute truth realm, I’m asking as a thought experiment - coz yeah everything is meaningless and nothing in the ultimate sense, but in the relative sense, is there such a thing as meta-illogical things and if so what would it look like or if not what sets that limit? - this is like a mixture of the most fascinating questions a human being can ask and godel’s incompleteness theory. - I understand that both logical and illogical things are relative and illusory dualistic, I’m asking a dualistic question ; I am no disciple because who was the buddhas teacher?

Using logic, explain how logic is illogical, therefore making it logical. Does metalogic prove logic? Can you have meta-illogical things? ♾

This article describes that probability doesn’t exist in the objective world and only in the subjective. - what’s your thoughts on this? https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1015525808214 also if that is the case, does that REALLY mean probability exist, is it not still a projection, a methodology, with certain empathises? And if not, then why not? Is mathematical probability a universal truth?

So does probability exist?

I’ve seached other threads but haven’t seen any directly speaking in this way, someone send me a link if I missed it. : Can cannabis be used in the same way as either psychedelics and if so in what way? Cannabis obviously has a deep history and has been acknowledged for it’s beneficial properties but just like with anything if it’s abused then any perceived positive effects can end up becoming negative. In the same way that baptism was originally to induce an ego-death type experience, was there an original way that cannabis was used or is “supposed” to be used in relation to spirituality? How would one go about having a healthy relationship with cannabis in the pursuit of growth, as can done with more powerful psychedelics? Just seeing if there’s any general guidelines that are out there and where the source of information is coming from. ;When you get the message, hang up the phone. - Alan Watts

Where would such a person be in society? Where do “witches” or those indulging in occultism, hang around?

If we had to choose between the two, what would you side with, a Machiavelli approach of dealing with the world as it is (effectiveness) or a more “spiritual” approach if you like, of how we feel the world should be (fairness)?