Jack River

The falsity of progress is more like it dude. You wanting to progress is the breeder of thoughts.

No just saying that the motive/desire and thought are the same. You can ether sit, stand, or walk, but resisting what is fuels thought no matter what.

@Outer oh outer. Funny guy. The point is when I am not projecting a reward to be attained that is when thought stops. You are not getting it dude. At least see I’ll into this. You say you are intelligent.

Actual meditation, as in choicless attention/awareness this is revealed. You have seen that yet? Motive/intention or psychological time blinds us to this.

I’m saying when I have a motive in mind that is reactionary itself. So thought come as a result. When I and free of thought I didn’t set out to do so. I have never timed this lol.

Fragmentation dudes. Psychological time fuels reaction/thoughts.

Motive fuels thought dude. You don’t get it man. Instead of self inquiry maybe understand yourself for now. Motive/thought are mutually interdependent man. Intelligence reveals this.

Concentration is what you are shooting for right? My point was showing the difference between the two. The rest is up to you to look at.

Dude...lol hilarious. I like you outer?

No dude. Lol you clearly haven’t seen yet. Intelligence isn’t the product of thought. Didn’t you get the memmo?? it’s all over the forum dude. Intelligence works to keep thought straight. But intelligence is not born of thought/“me” itself. Like that metaphor @who chit sheared. Intelligence or “bigs self” sees the whole of thought/self/objects and in that seeing there is intelligent thinking. If that seeing from the standpoint of awareness isn’t there then thought is corrupt. It then thinks it is of greatest significance/the ground.

I was just joking dude. Your awsome. Faceless said it wasn’t natural for him. He suffered a lot. But he said one day he just stoped resisting out of nowhere. I’m not sure about robdl thought. Anyway it is better to atleast be aware of this illusion rather than not. So in that sense the means/way isn’t all bad.

What are we practice?? That of thought right? Well that is getting caught in the thought loop dude.

No one is going to teach anything is right. Looking to thought won’t cut it. So why do you say practice. Shit doesn’t make sense dude. I have read your posts man. They are very confused. You haven’t seen holistically yet. You say to practice, but what do you think practicing is?, could it be the application of thought? You are caught in the trap of trying to cultivate psychological freedom. That’s not how it works man.

Hey dude lol. Meditation is awsome. But it really starts when we stop moving in a certain direction, or in time.

Lol. Quantum leep. Nice one dude. But just because you don’t get it yet doesn’t mean everyone else is retarded.

Lolo

Fosho man. The falsity of self can be seen only when it is seen holistically. Which means not a verbal/intellectual understanding but truth sees the fact of it. This is intelligence that sees.

Me too. Understanding Fear was the biggest help for me. I spent all day understanding all the hidden fears that were disguised. This lead to awareness of psychological seeking. The awareness seems to end it. I understand. You have gone into thought and how it is directly related to the the arise of thought?

@who chit to me there is no “true self” until time ends actually...Otherwise it’s all an assumption and invention. If we didn’t have knowledge of the the big self then it wouldn t be assumed. So the dissolving of time movement reveals the nameless. ‘If’ there is an ending of the veil of thought/me then we will see what is beyond. Or if there is a beyond. But we cannot assume.

@Charlotte anyone that mirrors the phenomena of thought/self/reality is good to listen to. I like robdl and faceless which is like krishnamurtis mirroring. I’m sure others do this too. Someone who shares what can be seen within experience itself really helps. Because then you are really learning by observing yourself. Learning about the entire experience of self. Which includes all the problems we have. But we don’t want to try and learn about anything beyond time/self. Because that leads to illusion. We only know what we know. That of thought.

Only problem is the self can invent the idea of the true self. That’s why to avoid the trap of invention/thought we can stay with false self and object. Understand that in its totality ends that. That ends the movement of the known. Then there is space for the unknown/ground of being. But that image/metaphor is cool dude. Awareness sees the whole.

Fosho. Understanding thought/ “the me” gets into all that.

I feel freedom would be common without having to dissolve conditioning at all. We would start out aware of this conditioning. Awareness would eventually become inherent in conciousness. But if we limit consciousness by saying it is necessary to suffer to end suffering we will not change that pattern.

@Charlotte same thing as questioning someone’s religion. They feel attacked. Fear sets in then they defend. It’s all the self image protecting what it has invented. Which is thought inventing the me. Totally gnarly dude.

The means we take to be free and the “me” are the same. Me=the means as in method/technique/system. So if I question the means that you want to take or have taken I am really questioning “you”. You see how that works? The “me” is defensive. The me is its Content. Content being everything it knows and uses to get “somewhere” psychologically.