Jack River

All psychological reactions such as depression, anxiety, insecurity are a result of self looking answers by engaging in pleasure. Desire in pursuit of pleasure sustains the illusion of self and brings about these psychological isssues.

I think we are taking about psychological craving. It’s a mental/psychological issue. It’s direclty related to self looking for security/contentment in thought. An action based off believing self is beyond thought itself and all important. It’s due to forgetting or not seeing the truth in the fact that self is only a function and can only bring about relative satisfaction. But we move in the direction of pleasure to satisfy or bring about a sense of wholeness. This cannot be done.

Bohm does a great job at expressing this.

This is better done in daily activity. To sit down with the motive to this for a few minutes a day may be more difficult.

Fosho. We need to understand that accepting or condemning means we cannot actually watch this movement and it’s relationship to thoughts/images.

Might want to understand emotion and it’s relationship to thought before meditating. Thought accepts by rationalizating the thought that gives way to the emotion, and condemns by giving emotion up or suppressing it. You will see that even though you seem to be meditating that you may be actually moving within thoughts normal pattern.

See that all world views are conditioned. Understanding holistically the nature of thought puts order in thought. Purpose is relative and dependent on culture/tradition which is conditioned by thought itself. Action influenced by this conditioning means we are still fragmented and projecting that as views being true as opposed to another. All based on thought which is inherently relative/bias.

Isn’t it implicit in meditation that all goal orientation or self/concentrated movement is dormant? Isnt a goal(directing/pursuing) sustaining self activity and therefore resisting death?

@Tony 845 does enlightenment happen?

Fosho. @Rilles are you aware that projection is a reaction. So is applying any kind of technique as a means to control projection. We then try to work in this pattern of reaction to end that pattern of reaction. This is how self feeds itself. Something to check out dude.

Neurosis also a result of that confusion from the false division. The self/ego/thought is its content. So if the content is neurotc in nature than self/ego is that too right dude?

Couldn’t we say that being depressed/sad arises from craving? A type of reaction.

Freedom from reaction/emotional response/assumption first dude? These are intertwined. They really enslave us and there must be freedom to explore.

Psychological time brah. You don’t need anyone here on the forum. I feel ya.

There is no end, and there is no path. Yep. The thing is knowing isn’t the point. Psychological time still moves even with knowing. If that time stops then it’s all so simple. Not getting what you’re saying here brah.

You don’t act on love dude. Love is its own action. Love doesn’t choose. Love is action and that action needs no motive. If we needs a “thing” to get us up int the morning our life is influenced by fear/psychological time. And that means we have appointed the self as being more than just a function. Thought has then became the master. Love/truth or what is is the ground and thought is only a function. Truth/love doesn’t need a thing to get up everyday, only the confused self/ego/fear does.

Fosho. If we haven’t gone into very deeply the nature of thought/self, chances are we are not aware of what a doing is and known when we are ‘doing’. To me the understanding of thoughts nature is a fundamental part having the freedom to be choicelessly aware. For me starting with fear and pleasure as movement was the key. Do nothing or choicesless awarness takes holistic insight into the whole of thought. To be able to observe thought as movement. Pretty awsome way to maintain awareness. To me the only way.

Exactly! Thats exactly the pattern thought/self works in. All of this is covered in exploring the nature of thought/self. To understand thought in its nature we totally end this progressive movement towards freedom. Then we will totally end all this stage stuff. We realize that every step we take in such a pattern is prolonging the illusion of self.

Allan watts is the man? Problems/conflict is only a fact when there is this divided action, as in psychological becoming. As the “self” that sees itself different form the process of thought is looking to thought to end itself, and therefore providing sustenance to the illusion of self. Any action we take from the standpoint of self/ego to change the fact, sustains the fact. The fact being conflict/problems. This psychological momentum of self always trying to escape the fact keeps the fact alive. @Flammable you got it dude??

Yep. Good question dude. Maybe in seeing it is implicit in the question of “how do we” that that is again an impulse/reaction itself. We may see that it is so habitual that this type of response arises. Which is why understanding, like you suggested, is such a necessity.

Because the reactionary impulses of the controller are so ingrained. All that prevents that awareness. Resistance=control and control=more reactionary impulses.

A few of us here are pointing to awareness which isn’t divided. We are referring to thought as movement. Nothing to do with concepts. This Movement tends to move directed in a certain direction. Thought/psychological movement will focus on a part of experience to bring about a self imposed silence. Anyway I’m not sure if that’s what you’re suggesting here, but I think @DrewNows was suggesting that. I’m not quite sure where you stand here so sorry. Either way it’s all good man. We’re in this together?

Freedom from the conflicting self with its clinging to what delivers a sense of safety needs to end first. Truth is never come about when we are caught up in divisive action/reaction. And reaction to that empty feeling is just that. Don’t worry about truth, put order in living first. All that anxiety, depression, stress, is all reactionary and self movement. From the place of self/conflict, truth can never come about. Freedom from the conditioned responses first dudes. You don’t do anything about truth. Truth is when all that baggage has ended.

As in intelligence doesn’t exclude parts of experience. It seems that the ending of this exclusion based attention, which is reactionary, is the ending of conditioned response and then seems to come about this intelligence.

Fosho. But attachment and identification is actually one movement of fear escaping itself. And the thoughts that arise and are observed(presence) are still the the response of identification/attachment. But I agree..in presence or awareness there is no problem, the only problem is the fact that we had those thoughts/impulses in the first place is because we have already reacted and identified. We tend to fall in and out of awareness. We identify then dis-identify with what has already been identified with, such as the content of thought. It’s like continually pruning a tree as opposed to ripping the tree or at the root, as in not actually not identifying in the first place. In this ending of identification there should not arise these impulses/reactions in the first place. This seems to how some can go longer without thought than others. This is what could be considered as an expression of the movement of division in action or psychological time in movement. Pretty crazy how thought moves fosho.