Jack River

Fosho Yep. Agreed dude

There is the imposed quieting of mind, which is temporary and not as deep, and there is the ending of time itself that is direct action to this quiet “state”.

Seems like an imposed “no mind state”. Thought will do this. Identify as no mind. As long as it is not a movement of psychological effort then mind is doing its function and not going beyond its limit. I tend to listen better than reading text too. Reading may demand effort to understand words and context. It’s the psychological effort that causes the thoughts/emotions reactions that feed the illusion of division.

Actually calling up on anger in order to watch it is most excellent way to observe and learn how anger/thought co-operate as a process. If that’s what @i am I AM was suggesting. Especially for someone looking to see as a fact that the thinker is the thought. Feeler the feeling, and such.

There is only Conflict/suffering when there are two things(subject/object) to conflict. ?

Gotcha dude..Action/reaction is born of division between subject/object of experience. No division actually in reaction to itself then no conflict/suffering.

Emotional awareness doesn’t operate in that conditioned pattern of emotional response. It actually stops operating totally when it’s sees the conditioned pattern at work. Eventually I noticed that the emotional reaction does lessen too depending on the quality of awareness.

Yeah intelligence that observes emotional response doesn’t control as that is conditioned reactionary movement away from what is. Emotional mastery sounds like thought trying to put order in itself by using the same movement pattern that causes disorder itself. As in to direct in a certain direction, as in control, emotion/thought reaction itself. When I here emotional mastery what comes to mind is discipline. As that dicipline to me is mind directed. There is a discipline that arises as a result of this intelligence/awareness, but doesn’t seem to be mind/direction oriented. It’s freedom which is its own dicipline.

Intelligent action opposes the pre-fixed mold that society depends on to maintain the continuity of its agenda. This agenda is thought going beyond its limit continually to bring about “individual” contentment/fulfillment.

Maybe any motive of self to let go of thoughts or live in the moment implies missing that moment all together dudes.

Sounds like mind/thoughts barriers are still in place dude. All means “we” use to arrive somewhere are considered mind movement. Practice, knowledge, experience, to arrive at a realization. All that is conditioned reactionary action and tou may see that that acts as a blindfold to what is. When the “me” actually is not, there is no conflict what so ever dude.

When I say path I mean that which has been established in the past/thought. So self and path both an invention of that field of time/thought/the past...self/ego is born of the past and so is various paths/tradition/culture/thought that that self depends on to free “itself”. But this sustains that movement of self. It’s self strengthening its own illusion by thinking it can find an answer in thought. But thought and self are one, so it really just makes “me” feel more real. Pretty gnarly. Just to clear up any possible confusion in what I mean dudes.

That is the nature of self. What I am suggesting is maybe the self and the path are codependent. A resipirical/co-sustaining relationship that feeds itself in that relationship. Maybe the self and the means/path are really one unit in movement as psychological time. The baby=self and the blanket=thought/path. This insight I am speaking about sees the totality of this self momentum as one unit at work and perhaps stays away from that pattern of disorder/conflict. And I question whether there is any clinging when this huge insight acts on consciousness. Such reactionary response such as clinging to the blanket may mean truth/freedom/liberation hasn’t yet been actually “SEEN”. But I don’t know. I’m sure someone out there understands what I mean.

Awareness doesn’t carve a path. Awareness moves effortlessly/harmoniously without leaving any trace because awareness isn’t restricted to a path. Awareness stands way above and observes from a high position, the whole path itself. It’s sees all the dead ends and obstructions all at once and sees perhaps the vanity/uselessness go about things that way. Intelligence/insight sees the whole map/territory and there is total action as a result of that. Intelligence steps out of that conditioned pattern of pursuit as a result of that insight. With a carful and sensitive stride (awareness), no path is established/projected, and therfore no remains of such path are present. When it comes to liberation/truth/freedom maybe there is no path. Maybe the path itself ends where freedom begins. A lot of people say a path is necessary, but I wonder if the realization that there is no such path is more necessary.Maybe freedom begins when we see the falsity of a path and step out of that conditioned pattern of time. After all is the means(path) actually any different than self/ego and its attachment to thought itself?

This clinging to bias means they are not actually logical, reasonable, rational. Its thought moving in particular direction but not having any awareness of thoughts structure/nature itself. So thought is then the master calling the shots. There can only be an straight order of logic, reason, and rational thinking when we understand the limits of thought/self and are aware of when and how that mechanism goes beyond its limit. Although this ability to do see/be aware of this incoherent order of thought, which does brings about coherent action, doesn’t take many years to become actual. Just takes self understanding/ the understanding of thoughts relationship with feelings/emotional reactions. This doesn’t really depend on time, but more the energy we put into this self reflection.

@lmfao action in day to day life ultimately expresses if we “get it” or not. The degree that this thought/feeling cycle of reactions stops feeding themselves determines this oneness or wholeness. There is a great deal to understand about self/thought/the known and its nature. But the unknown comes about when all that stops feeding itself. Anyway I feel ya my dude. ?

It’s not quite clear what u mean dude.

When people speak about body and thought I don’t see them being separate at all. Thought seems to be a function of the body. What I would say is that brain/intellect is intelligible. As in intelligence can work through the intellect/brain and its conditioned patterns to end those conditioned patterns...But it’s like a one way relationship. As in we cannot cultivate intelligence by means of thought/intellect, but to end that movement to cultivate clears the conditioned field so intelligence can operate. This is how I see it though my day to day so far.

For me, when experience stops being projected on top of “each moment” that is what this “nonduality” points too.

I agree. To point out connections in falsity, and to bring that to awareness. To bring to attention the nature of the conditioned consciousness is important.

Yep. The thinking Satan(thought) and the experiencer are actually one process of thought itself. I can see the association that brought about this fear. I think I’m following you dude,I feel ya.. I have gone through this recently. This is letting the thought/feeling flower and die. Usually we hold on to the to this cycle of thought/feeling process and don’t slow it to dissolve totally. We condemn it accept which keeps it alive, which is that experience carryover I mentioned. The degree that we can do this determines the degree that experience that will stop being carried over. Then more awareness put on this process/movement the less of a veil of thought is carried over on top of what is.

I feel ya. To me it’s worth talking about duality, self, thought as process/movement, as thought/self and thoughts-feelings/emotions and how they are related to form certain experiences. But to talk about enlightenment/nonduality does serve the self/ego and is to work within the narrrow structure/pattern of thought/self/duality.

Fosho. It’s a sustaining reaction of ego. This death goes way deeper than people think. It gets closer to when getting into the ending of experience carryover.

He’s a very excellent thinker and holder of supreme wisdom. A great being fosho.

@Tony 845 that was my point. We tend to make assumptions to satisfy or rationalize the reactions we have.