Jack River

Can Truth/“enlightenment” be known and therefore experienced? Or is the closest to truth the ending of knowing/experience? To know/to experience isn’t it implicit that this truth/enlightenment has been projected/fixed?

True Appreciation doesn't seem to depend on conditions

Is “enlightenment” fixed? Is truth fixed? And therefore can it be known or experienced?

I would say that actual awareness is a constant process of death. Every moment we must be perpetually dying which is actually living. This is the difference between those who reside is various experiences as the ground, and those who’s ground is based in no experience at all.

Truth seems to be both changing/and still.

Actual meditation starts only after the nature of thought/self is fully understood with a holistic insight. This insight is powerful enough to act as its own action. Any other action influenced by thought itself is inherently self limiting. To have a insight into the whole of thought then we won’t ask whether we are doing meditation right or not right in regards to “how it’s suppose to be done”. Holistic insight puts order in the action we take. Then meditation can begin and is not limited by psychological time/thought and its predetermined/or premeditated nature. This from what I have seen is the biggest hurtle. The continuity of the self wants to tag along in the journey to truth. To go beyond that continuity/self has to end dudes.

Yeah maybe. The self looks for “ways”, which is accumulated from knowledge/cultivation to what it thinks will bring about a coherence. But in this action has its root in incoherence. The self is not aware that it is trying to come to a place of wholeness or from a place that implies divison/isolation. This is why freedom from incoherence comes first and foremost. Which means psychological freedom, as in seeing the falsness of psychological time and its destructive nature and ending that conditioned pattern of resistance or conflict..Incoherence means conflict, and to cultivate conflict means no relationship. No relationship=conflict and conflict= more fragmentation individually or inwardly and collectively or outward. Which is what I think this points too.

Fosho man. People seem to want to “enlighten” through self centered means. They try and cultivate focus/time which means the incentive becomes a product of conflict. This is an action that comes from feeling separate/isolated. But we may see that Conflict itself is a response of fear, resistance. And fear always moves towards security. So every step we take is limited to the conditioned pattern of isolation which the goal is then always superficial/self centered and narrow as a result. With this type conditioned momentum total insight/perception is always prevented. Total/holistic insight is unconditioned action. We look to become enlightened as the individual, and not as consciousness as a whole. I feel ya dude?

Fosho. A conditioned reaction that is limited to knowledge/experience or thought only sustains that conditioned momentum of time/control or divided action. Insight that is whole and unconditioned is the only “non way”. As in unconditioned action that doesn’t come from reaction/conflict/psychological time.

A great friend once said, “ it’s not the unknown, but the accumulation and attachment to content/“things”/the known coming to an end that we dread/fear.” Rings true as I have seen?

Or the known ending. The known and the self are one unit of Time. For the known to end so does the “me”, which is its content/movement.

We soon may see that there is only the fact of fear when we are caught in this divided action. As In trying to control our experience/experiences. This divison between the experiencer and the experienced is what brings about fear in the first place. Then when that fear is ran from it gets sustained. When this division is no more so goes the fear. Divison=fear.. no divison no fear. This goes for anger, sadness, jealousy, and etc. The question is do can we detect the many subtle movements of fear in our day to day? What qualifies as fear and what qualifies as a movement away from fear?

We see that every movement we make to “deal with” which implies control, actually is a divided action. Asking how to deal with it as well. To ask how to deal with it as if “it” were separate from “me/you”. When we ask how to, we are looking for answers in thought itself. But this problem arises because we have implicitly divided self and thought in the process to solve. This divided action keeps self alive. There can be no death with such an action my Brahman?

Learn about it(FEAR) by staying with it. The self avoids this as that is its function, to protect itself, to avoid, cover up, evade, run away and seek safety in the idea, the concept, and such. The self/fear is a perpetual movement away from fear itself searching for security in abstraction/experience/routine. Every move that self makes to run from fear manifests itself conforming to practices, looking for “high conscious experience”, and seeking security in all that. All of that is found within the content of thought. The self seeks psychological security in its content which is its knowledge/experiences and the means it utilizes to bring about the goal/end. All this participation in routine/practices to bring about death actually prevent death itself. Good question to go into is what is the meaning of death? What does it mean to die. What dies? Etc.

Lol I feel ya dude. Its that divison “my” mind way of speaking/thinking. It runs deep in the way we think/in experience.

self looks for answers in thought to escape its own conflict. This action sustains that divison/conflict..It might be important to not necessarily look for answers dude. Maybe instead be willing to understand the problem itself. Fear and its reaction that arises in the form of assumption will always cling to what ever answer to satisfy itself psychologically. When you asked what is attachment it can be seen as desire, identification with something, clinging to ideas, theory, concept and such. All of this type of activity is resisting understanding what is actually the case, as in the problem. We escape the problem to feel better continuously. This is how the self escapes what is. By clinging to the content of thought which is its accumulated ideas, theory, concepts.

Is this a manifestation of attachment itself? Asking how. This is all understood by exploring the nature of thought. This can be talked with with others but also has to be understood at the same time by using yourself as a first hand learning material.

Any psychological movement away from what is the case. Any action that has its root in identifying with the content of thought in order to respond to “psychological problems”.

This I can understand fosho. Process yes, process of time (conditioned movement) not so much. I would say that process of awakening starts when the process of time stops. This is how it all seemed to come together as I see it.

What seems to make it so difficult is it’s not a “cultivated thing” to be attained. As in Time(40years) or any chemical technological “means” can get us to the mysterious of nothingness. All of that is still conditioned movement. That’s what makes it so uncatchabel dudes. That’s what makes it so cool. Expanding consciousness=endless experiences “permanent awareness as the ground”= no experience at all. Then experience comes in only when needed, as in application of the intellect/thought.

What makes you think this is something you build upon. People seem to think this is “raising or expanding consciousness”, but we soon see that that’s not the way it works. Some may see that it is actually the ending of your current conditioned consciousness. Expanding consciousness will go on forever and is not the point. The self feeds off this expansion of consciousness.

Unawareness..as in nonbeing. You are not conscious of anything int that place of mystery.

Many will walk that path..When Insight/intelligence acts all such technological means to end time seem so futile. It’s all seen as incoherent and that seeing itself brings about coherence. A total transcending of all mind patterns end at that moment. Total perception/insight/intelligence doesn’t depend on time.

The intellect seems to be only a part of intelligence. So I would say that the intellect would expand intelligence. But when we are limited to the intellect, as in we do not know it’s limits/nature we then limit intelligence itself. Intelligent action doesn’t depend on thought content/time. Action that arises from thought depends on its content/knowledge which is always limited.

If we ask how we are already looking for an answer in bias which are based off assumptions/presupposition.