Jack River

@Preetom also do you think that applies equally to a path. Ego is already in one way or another on a certain path. It seems that ego conforms to a path directly because of this desire/fear/resistance/effort pattern. You see what I mean brah? So this seems to me that a path and and the ego are inseparable. Makes sense?

Is Love dependent on the notion of it being reciprocal? Is that what you mean?

Right, but also in this sense..desire seems to arise because of a lack of which when we look deep is fear in reaction to itself. Desire is a reaction of fear. But if this arises as an experience we can see it as one unit of resistance in movement. Or time as you said.

Defense mechanism fosho. I see fear and desire as one movement too. Do you see what I mean?

Fosho. We seem to incoherently move within the conditioned field of matter. As in knowledge/memory or thought. Then we “the self” reacts to thought/emotion which activates this compulsion to attatch/identify and conform to that content/movement of thought.

Seems thought transcends its own limit unconsciousnessly. Every step we take in a movement of incoherence.

But the self inquiry method does imply effort as a means to end effort.

Well it seems that the seeker is in that predicament because of this effort. Right? It seems that the seeker has always been seeking/using effort in one way or anohter.

As in seeing what limits “us” from going to that pure consciousness “state”. Seeing that we use means of thought/self (knowledge or the known) continually and unconsciously to try a go beyond the known to the unknown.. we seem to be attatched to the known and work within that field of the knowledge(the known). So every step we take is within that limit of duality. Am I somwhat making sense dude?

@winterknight so when that continuity of conditioned movement(matter) is not the means to get to “the beyond” anymore, could we say that is a good foundation? Wouldn’t this prevent us from trying to move within the field of matter to go beyond matter?

We could say that intellectual understanding to come to the whole (pure consciousness) is this matter trying to see through it’s own limits beyond itself? You see it that way too dude?

It must be seen as the reality(fact) that it is. Understanding an idea not even close to enough.

Fosho. You can also “hunt for that feeling” by purposely thinking of an occurrence where you were angry. This bringing up the thought will follow a feeling/emotion. Then you have yourself a felling/emotion and an “entity” that is “watching them”. This is another way to see this process of divison in action. Usually people dont want to bring these feelings to the surface. But it can be very valuable to do it. Yeah. The perspective/view is influenced by past thoughts/feelings/emotions and the reaction to them which is gets recorded. We then look through the eyes of “our” past. Through this divided perspective between the thinker and the thought. The self clings to that content of the past(identification). Then our action is influenced by that divided action. This is a really important thing to understand about the self and it’s processes of the thought/emotion loop that is sustained by one reaction after another.

We may soon see that every action we take is a reaction itself. This reaction goes unnoticed. We are unaware from moment to moment this movement/process of the cycle of thought/emotion and how that process feeds itself. So every action self takes to end itself is actually sustaining itself. The question is whether we can identify what is happening when it is happening. If there is awareness of that movement/process thought will see it as dangerous and not move in that direction. This non psychological movement is the result of intelligence. Intelligent action stops that psychological movement of reaction to thought/emotion from recycling itself.

We tend to conform to the path naturally. As I said before the self is the path. Both the product of knowledge/memory. We seek to conform to “things” to bring about a certain result/goal. This is a usual pattern of self. So for me I would say the path isn’t necessary but we already are conditioned to walk one either way. So to say we shouldn’t has no relevance. The fact is we do...self implies path. But you are saying the path is all the self has without insight and etc. I understand what you are saying dude.

Don’t get me wrong it takes all ones energy. It’s actually an all day awareness. I see what you mean though. Without the insight I am talking about they have no foundation. I feel ya.

Oh no dude, don’t get me wrong conflict was very real for me. I’m not that type to say it’s an illusion. Conflict is not an illusion. Conflict/fear/suffering is a fact as long as this divison is in movement/sustained. When that divison totally stoped feeding itself, as in no controlling/resisting that fact was no longer the fact. Most excellent how it all happened I must say dude. I am only intereted how this process of conflict can end itself. To me I have already ended conflict by not supplying it, and continue to do so from moment to moment with awareness of movement. But I am just curious to what takes place in what you are implying here. Anyway I appreciate your responses brother or sister?

Really comes down to the ending of moving in any direction. Which means no activation of resistance/attachment, which seems to cling/identify to its own content of thought. The self clings to thought to end itself, it succeeds in suppressing thought temporary, but still leaves the self in tact. This is what seemed to happen the majority of my life. Actually can’t belive I did this for so long dudes. Talk about a waste.

Well I would say when I saw that the self and the path are one movement of time that huge insight put order in thought and therefore psychological freedom without intention/effort/motive/psychological time..Then there was no path that was creating conflict as I was not in pursuit in the first place. When there was freedom by seeing the fact that the self and the path were actually the same process of divison in movement, that was truth/acting on that movement of thought/divison which ended that movement. For me I would say there was actually no control which is effort in this action. Actually control/effort to attain an outcome is a divided action itself. What I am speaking of is total action that is not divided. It is not action influenced by a progression of cultivation to become, but the result of an insight/understanding beyond the intellectual/verbal/conceptual of the intellect. It is an insight that sees thought as a unit of movement. It sees the whole of thought and its process. In this seeing there is a total ending of movement as the self/thought. In this holistic insight awareness is aware of its own movement and doesn’t react to that movement as to sustain it.

Resistance Any choice to accept or deny is a movement of thought as self is still in psychological pursuit. Therefore the illusion is still in movement. Thought going beyond its limit.

But can we say that this sustains conflict as it is resistance/attachment which brings about reaction itself? Can we say that conflict itself sustains self/divison? It’s kinda like saying psychological time will end by moving on that path of psychological time. Do you understand what I mean dude?

Kinda reminds me of how I use to meditate with an intention to bring about a desired state of contentment.

Does this relative silence with its focusing/excluding imply a imposed silence? Does this movement of focus/control sustain psychological conflict/division? As it does imply a controller.

@winterknight fosho man. The way that I seemed to die continually is by non-choosing/no positive&negative moment of reaction (thought/emotion cycle). As in not moving in either direction of thought by resistance/identification. Or by not moving within the field of time/thought. Seems quite different than what you are saying though. Interesting though dude. Maybe we can talk more in a while. Party on dude?

As in a total stoppage of subject/object/time, this and that and such, but as an actual experiencing/phenomenon. As in actually no labeling/thought movement at all psychologically which means thought only operates when needed. But when I am not doing anything it is pure silence. Mind with nothing in it.