Jack River

Up and down effect like a person who is addicted to caffeine, nicotine, or whatever.

According to tradition yes. That is concentrated attention/control. That is a reaction of mind/self. I did that to already. It is temporary and must be routinely applied. This strengthens “self”. Caused a lot of conflict. There would be times of relief and times of severe conflict.

Meditation is to end control/ as the controller. To stop moving positively or negatively. Mediation is awareness and is choicless. Meditation is the absence of premeditation. Truth is not fixed and is not come to by any means. The means projects its end. The means will then be fixed and so will the end/gaol/ “truth”

It can also be seen as a reaction/response to control a situation or experience. I already did the whole breath thing and it was a relief fosho. But it’s not powerful like awareness. Awareness is total/holistic. No energy gets wasted in this awareness. Control/effort always wastes energy.

It can be seen that “conquering the breath” is concentration/control and therefore not awareness or even attention.

Disorder or nonbalance seems to come in when we put more emphasis on one part of experience/sensation or whatever. My point is simply awareness is holistic.

Fosho. I would see that as a defensive mechanism that brings about a sense of relief. I feel ya brah.

Your not seeing the point my dude. I don’t resist by focus/control. I’m not sure we are on point with the point. We can die or we can resist death.

That’s the point. Only thought will exclude parts of the whole. There is actually no directing necessary, unless the self feels there is. Only the self/controller directs in a particular direction.

No matte the case focusing or attending to breath is a movement of thought. Thought directs/works on a part.

Or can we say it’s all tapped into the whole directly. Don’t ignore is my point.

Here’s my point brah....awareness of breath I get it..?. But i don't stop at that. Awareness/total attention is to the whole process and the processes that arise of those processes. Like thought movement. I’m with you dude. Only I don’t stop at breath.

It can be said that the particular mind is the result of a material process in body. Right? I wouldn’t say breath and the material process that brings about thought is much different.

It can be seen as a tool that thought uses to try and transesnd itself. Without thought/self identifying with the breath there would be no entity that directs. Right?

I feel ya dude. But then why “breath work”..as to designate attention on a particular direction is born of the same place where imagination spawns from. Thought/intellect/the thinker/the experiencer/the doer. Right man. So you see what I’m saying...intelligence doesn’t designate/direct/exclude any of its parts. Breathing is a material process and so is thought/intellect a process that takes place in the body.. Both a process within a process etc.

Why not be attentive/aware of the Inward/outward (the whole)? Not excluding any parts dude, right dude? the intellect never sees the whole, but excludes parts.

Then why make it so complicated by applying breath work? Using the breath seems a lot more complicated then it needs to be. Right? I am referring more to nonbeing though too. Not sure if we are speaking about the same “thing” by brah.

Fosho dude? Party on!

Oh hehe. Well that seems to be making things more complicated then they have to be.

Antagonism is resistance dudes.

Might want to be a little clearer my dude. You mean a perception without concepts and such. it can be a problem when communicating traditional text and not trying to lay out the context of what you mean. Can you give me a little more on what it points too my Brahman? Otherwise I don’t know what you are referring to.

I figured out the moment to moment dying recently. Most excellent.. Good luck dude?

The “where” will fall apart when the self actually dies.

Lol ? Fosho dude also might want to learn how we project knowledge/experience, thought, in place of a “direct experience”. And how “self” holds on to experiences. This seems to keep alive self. The self tends to cultivate an appetite for certain experiences. The ”me” will have a certain experience record them and cling to that experience which give self its continuity as the “experiencer”. So there may be a moment of death but it’s short lived when we are chemically induces..Then memory of that experience and we are back into the dual again. Because the memory is always limited to experience/the dual.. The point is death is a moment to moment type of deal. So actually the difficult thing is dying continually. It’s not looking to the experience of death, but more about sustaining death continually by never accumulating experience or holding on to experience, as in AWARNESS. So a way to look at is the ground or default “state” is not an experience but is no experience. Experience comes in when thought is used to navigate/respond physically. Like using thought/experience to learn intellectually, solve outward problems using thought. So try psychedelics fosho, but look into how self records/projects an experience and holds on to an experience as well. This will prevent the need to depend on psychedelics and the after effect of projecting your own accumulated content of knowledge in place of that no self experience when you come to and the chemical wears off. Then you will be able to die continually from moment to moment. Then the more moment to moment awareness stops this unnecessary recording/projecting, then the deeper in nothingness as default.