Jack River

My dudes surf buds. Yeah I wouldn’t refer to it as anything because it was not a thing I projected. If that makes sense.

Oh I totally get that. That’s normal for me on the daily now. But for that day I’m referring too i have no recollection if there was fear, or sensory field cutoff. You do remeber the experience though right? That is what I’m referring too as well. But you seem to recall which leads me to believe you were maybe somewhere “within” still concious. You see what I mean. There was fear, and you can recall the experience. Right?

Lol no it wasnt that. There were eyes on me. They said i was awake.

There was no fear involved in this as I can recall. It seemed like total ending of being. I cant say it is an experience at all. I didn’t experience anything.

So it was an experience? I feel I am taking about something different then. There is no record or it’s like lost time. I wasn’t there to recall fear. I can’t remember anything. That’s why it’s dangerous.

Oh ok. I see why the difference.

Seems very similar although I don’t remember. That seems to be me issue. You said it was chemically induced?

No the psychological death is a continuous thing for me which is how I can observe without thought distinctions and self content. Im taking about when you are totally not there conscious/aware that is dangerous physically. Im referring to the nonbeingness. It’s extreme to say the least. Well when you come to it is noticed as so.

@Nahm @Serotoninluv I have had this no distinction perception prior to thought as well once while floating out in the ocean. It was a moment where consciousness had no-thing in it.. i now refer to this as total or direct perception. There was total breakdown of distinction, as in no distance between points in space. Is this what you mean by “null void”? There does seem to be a distinction before the self/perceiver/perceived/thought distinction with its labels/conceptual systems. It’s hard to explain though. It’s not a distinction of self/thought/content accumulated through memory but more a distinction of points within a area of space. I haven’t really been able to explain the nature of this type of distinction yet but your above post makes this explaining a little easier. This breakdown of inward distinctions of experience/thought and even the breakdown of outward conceptual distinctions (projected thought/experience) seems to be happening more and more as I stop moving psychologically to become. I can observe inward thought movement and outward “objects” without the concepts and such now and that seems to be the ground or a default perception. I feel like I am on the edge sometimes as that total distinction collapse will happen again. But I feel like there is a danger in that as When I last “experienced” that it was a very dangerous situation to be in physically as I was not there and time/space totlay seemed to dissolve. You notice this too dudes?

Yep. As in consciousness with nothing in it. You will see that it will become more and more continual as awareness puts a stop to conditioned movement of thought/self. It’s actually more like not an experience as I see it. And the kicker is the more you try to “re-experience” “it” the less of a chance it will arise again. It seems the psychological pursuit of the experience seeker activates the response of thought itself. To me it seems when this psychological time actually stops psychological recording does too. Then the less thought is projected in time or “the next moment”.

I completely agree. Have you seen that in the seeing/understanding there can be an awareness that doesn’t move within the time/self field? As in this awareness seems to dissolve the “future” thought/emotion response from arising in the first place. The continuous dying from moment to moment seems to bring about that pure consciousness “state” or lack of experience/knowledge through the eyes of self. It’s more like an unconscious/unawareness. This has really become more and more continuous as an experiencing for “me”.

Thanks for the response by the way your ability to speak/write in a second language rocks? your second language is better than my first language

Thanks. That’s what faceless said. He did it all by looking at what is. His way of looking at what is is what got through to me. I was wandering because he seemed to say similar things as you guys but he never mentioned traditional texts and stuff. Thanks for your response @Preetom?

@Preetom @Emanyalpsid so one teaching is Buddhist and one is advaita? Both are teachings according to text. But are they both starting with knowledge to end knowledge or is the Buddhist way more similar to how I went about it? I didn’t ever go into any traditional text. Is that similar to this Buddhist way? It's like some people go into a certain train of thought like Buddhism or advaita to understand, but I went into the nature of thought itself. So I didn’t explore a certain type of thinking but understood thinking itself. Is my observation correct here or?

As I can see by the above post it was holistic understanding and therefore not a method/practice. For me there was no method. I’m curious to see the response too.

@Emanyalpsid I responded back to you yesterday and you haven’t yet responded back. I was wondering if that was similar to as you see it. 21 hours ago, Emanyalpsid said: Not quite right, knowledge can also be obtained through direct sensory perception. 'How' is just looking for a method ,or cause, and is the right question to ask yourself. By asking yourself how did my thoughts came to be, you will end up by the root cause of your ego. However, asking yourself 'why' will force you into reasoning or the meaning of something, this will strenghten the ego as it will create more thoughts and spin a web of thoughts, which is the ego. My reply was. What I am saying is when looking for a way out of suffering by searching for answers In ideas/concepts or thought we are no matter the case implicitly strengthening self. This action seems to imply that we as self are different from that process of thought and “we” can control by applying thought content to solve a problem that’s exsit separate from “us”. It’s from the start trying to escape the illusion as if the problem is different from the one who wants to escape “it”. So as long as we see that looking for an answer out of a problem strengthens “me” then we will not try. So that is to escape what is the case. Understanding what is really means to embrace the relationship with the problem of what is, as it is, or not looking for an answer but willing to observe the the fact as it is. About the direct perception I agree. But this is a seeing that is not limited to that lens of self. Its actually what faceless and robdl would talk about a lot. A seeing all supposedly different and distinct thoughts/actions/reactions as actually one movement in motion. Through this direct perception that is at its essence not of the response of thought there is an ability to see the whole of thought/self. As where usually thought only can see a small part of thought and chops away at those parts. This for example is limited to seeing through the concept. Make sense? This seems to be similar to what you said above. It’s directly realted to this insight/understanding/seeing that is beyond the limit of intellectual/conceptual understanding. It’s a holistic understanding. What do you think, is there a similarity here?

Nice? This insight as in a coherent perception of the generative order.

Hmmm I think I see what you mean dude I will give that some more looking into. Thanks for the response.

As in complete action. Fosho

So you use the thorn ( adhere to knowledge/methodology/scripture or thought) to take out another thorn of self knowledge? And I seemed to understand holistically knowledge/experience/memory and its relationship to psychological movement, and therefore that psychological movement doesn’t continue. The insight itself stops that movement in its tracks. So you seemed to move positively towards and within the field of time to end time, and I didn’t move in time but stoped that movement abruptly by seeing the whole or what is known as to see the generative order. I would like to look more into the differences here. Would you say the above observation is correct?

As attachment implies a lingering resistance. It’s a clinging to the known, which is not actually different from the knower. This can be seen as a kind of resistance to die.

Would you say that this lack of identification also implies no movement of the self/divison is carried on? as in no movement of reaction/action as incomplete movement?

Can we say that reaction/action arises from past reaction/action? the state of self is constantly changing and when “I” approaches certain problems it looks to static memory/knowledge to act on each changing moment. Thought. That seems to be the problem. The self thought is believed to be so real that it has already separated itself from its own content. The self that acts on its knowledge/memory necessitates the illusion of self and therefore that seems to keep that incomplete reaction/action moving. So i would say that even when the self disidentifies with its content prior to that there was already a process of identification. But awareness has seen this mistake, As you mentioned above. What happenes when awareness is so constant and ongoing that there is not even a process of identification in which there is any disidentification at all? You see what I mean?

love you man?