Jack River

‘Mental states are physiological reactions' - how do I counter this argument? Well.. This..”how do I counter this argument?” Is psychological reaction itself. A movement of thought that refuses to understand/remain in relationship with with the question itself. In this attitude logic, reason, rational investigation has already been corrupted.

Thought is a process that can be considered actual. What we take away/interpret from the thought in its meaning is not actual, as it is dependent on relative knowledge/memory...The process of thought is actual as it is a movement/process of matter/body that is in process.. Also the result that thought invents in the form of the building is also actual. The buildings are reality/actual but are a product of thought. The takeaway from thought seems to be the imagined, but thought itself can be seen as actual or a manifestation of reality or truth itself.

Bingo!! Well put? Just like “the individual” is the society. We abstract/divide. This seems to be a result of the inward state of being divided.

We can use “actual” in a different sense. The abstraction is actual in one sense and not in another. Depends on how we are using “actual”.

It’s an abstraction, that what you mean to say dude?

Life is relationship and that comes first. Any action taken that is not a whole action (action that arises from freedom), is inherently pushing relationship away as being less important. To me action needs to be indivisible. Which means there must be an actual sense of individualiality. And that means I am not divided within. Then what ever action taken is coherent. That seems to be a pretty responsible way to contribute to life to me

And all that control feeds the reaction/action as “the controller/self”. This psychological movement to control is a resisting what is the case(what ever the reality is in that moment). To resist that reality/fact is what sustains it. The reality/fact only exsist when this movement away from or towards its opposite is sustained. As that means action is a divided action of divison between “you” and the fact/reality. Fosho dudes. Resistance to the reality of what is creates that very reality. No resistance, which means no attachment means no escape from what is. And when that psychological momentum stops the fact/reality that you were trying to escape is I longer even a reality. You see dudes.. Try and watch this. It’s seriously gnarly as hell how we create that reality of conflict/suffering.

Most excellent dude. I totally agree with that ?

No that is what thinking is for dude. To plan/anticipate. For me recently, thought functions when needed. To work, organize and express words to write this, to drive the car that I don’t drive or to fix my rv when I starts to fall apart. But when there is no need for thought to operate it simply doesn’t. Namean dude When psychological seeking actually ends, which means no psychological becoming of any kind, those self referential thoughts don’t even arise. It’s actuly quite simple. Awareness itself sees that whole movement as it arises and doesn’t walk in the direction. There is simply a stop to that movement. It’s most excellent to stop this movement of psychological continuity.

Fosho dude. The emotion tends to feed the thought and thought the emotion, back and forth. The cycle of reaction/action. Well what I think is besides the point But I see what your saying brah..absolutely not, thought is a most excellent tool dude. The problem is when thought moves in order of cover up the fact in order to ignore It. This seems to strengthen the illusion as the independent “me” that moves in one way or another to avoid the fact to control its effect on the psychy. That implies the control. As far as “Awakening”, I feel to start with supreme humility is important. To me, freedom from there reactionary movements of psychological seeking seem to need to end first. Then we can “seek” without distortion/corruption of the pursuit. Oh no, none of that dude that is all resistance/attachment or fear resisting itself by clinging to thought(what has been accumulated over time as an idea, concept, and such. Again thought being a movement from the past to the future is to anticipate and solve problems in the physical environment or to control situations as it is then a practical-functional application. But when we look to thought to solve psychological problems is where we inherently have exceeded the limit of thought itself. We seem to act in accordance to the belief that the “me” is actually a separate entity, different in nature from the content that that “self” is seeking security in. Again this is what I mean by psychological becoming/time. An example, Fear will tend to run from itself in the idea of any idea that implies its opposite or thinks will bring about a sense of security/contentment and such. So the psychological becoming, of I am this but I will be that in time, is self looking to thought to run from itself. This seems to strengthen the divison between self and its contents such as its thoughts, feelings, beliefs, and such. So yeah fosho I feel ya, any movement away from what is is resistance/attachment/identification, or to escape. That will feed the falsness of “me” which will keep that loop of conflict/suffering going. It’s a very gnarly cycle dude. I spend my whole life in conflict/suffering. No more dude?

Maybe. When I say mechanically I mean how habitually we react to the thought/emotion cycle. This is a continuous cycle of resistance to the changing moment or happening. I think maybe it arises by resisting what is the case at a specific moment. It’s referred to as psychological time. Anyway I notice that when I am psychologically moving, as in psychological becoming this reaction/compulsion seems to really intensify. When there is no movement to psychologically become, as in seeking psychological security in thought, then thought seems to slow in occurrence. The more awareness on this movement seems to bring about less thought projection. But I am still trying to understand what is going on here so.

There is no actual image being projected at that moment. It’s not a thought imposed realty as well. It starts with non psychological reaction and grows into a silent “state” of no responding of past knowledge/experience. Simply there is no identification with thought and its content. For some reason we mechanically impose the image/thought content onto each moment. Maybe to respond to environmental conditions. But we also do this unnecessary psychologically. That psychological movement seems to call on the movement of thought itself to respond. But awarness of thought as movement itself puts an ending to that psychological movement. The seeing stops the responding of the image/concept from even entering in. It’s like a switch is flipped and there is no compulsion to cling to the image/memory. When I observe the movement of thought as it is I see that movement as resistance/attachment and stop moving once that direction or any direction for that matter. Atleast this is what I have come to see so far.

I mean when I use the word experience I mean a divided/limited perception through the filter of thought. To me an experience is a projection of thought. As in I interpret a experience according to the content of thought identified with. Example to experience Jesus is a conditioned projection of thought. We label/give meaning to an experience from the known (knowledge/past occurrence) and how we labeled the occurrence. Or thought content. Make sense? Or am I to green at explaining?

For purpose of understanding it seems easier to say to recognize implies an experience. So if there is not experience then there was recognizing. Right? But some speak according to traditional texts and refer to that unrecognizing as recognizing. Just like I say ending of knowledge in which others refer to as knowledge beyond thought.

Right. To recognize a thing means it was already known.

This I can relate to most definitely. This non experience. It’s pure mystery.

Give me some time to consider how to explain this. This here seems very much to be related. Its easier to explain in regards to the recording of psychological knowledge. For example various insults, or when somebody projects onto me. I am not in resistance by holding onto the experience(holding onto the image as a reaction of fear). So I am not moving psychologically by attaching/identifying to thought content later after the experience has already ended. So the next time I see that person i don’t project onto them from what happened in the past experience. The memory is there but is carried through and not held onto. It’s finished not carried over. The memory of the event/occurrence is there but not the falseness of the image I projected as am label. Even in regards to psychological reaction with myself in an experience it still applies. Any reaction of thought/emotion that does get through or as you say (resisting what is) there is an awareness of this which corrects that movement of time, and ends it. So a reaction/memory with the image, favorable or not, is not carried over to the next moment. It’s a continuous ending of the image that I interpret as favorable or not, which is resistance to what is or (psychological time in movement). Now, its to difficult for me to explain the actual memory blankness that seems to grow form this awareness that ends psychologically continuity. I will keep thinking ofna way to explain it though. It’s all still very new to me that part. It’s so hard to explain it dude. Maybe if it happens more and more I will be able to communicate it better.

@DrewNows for you, is there a moment to moment death to content(self as consciousness)? As in, in the form of awareness no resistance/attachment/identification or movement away from or too? Reaction/action movement/psychological time.

Fosho. It’s kind of a continuous thing. But what happened on the water was different from my day to day now. Now I can go walk the beach and stuff and observe freely without thoughts impressions that the self projects. But there is still in tact distance, or points within space. So those types of distinctions remain. And in my day to day I can kinda recall when I’m in a “state”. I have all senses going. Actually they are all going at once or there is not over focus on one of the senses over another. They are actually heightened way beyond normal. Like ultra sensitive. But that day in the water was deeper or something. I can’t really remeber anything but the energy explosion and extreme light feeling.

Maybe there were no responses. There may have been sounds but I never seemed to recognize them as “sound”. I don’t know. Because there seemed to be a lack of responses it’s hard to say. I know it starts as no psychological response. It seems to lead to no response or interpreting to the external. Dang man. I don’t know. It’s so unclear the memory. But the feeling after was of high energy. Like overwhelming. Calming but also an explosive energy. This is all to recent still. Can’t quite explain any of it.

Yeah I’m thinking I simply didn’t record the “experience”. I continue to do this now on the daily psychologically. I feel like the recording is usually so instant. But it’s kind of scary to not record. Lol you know what I mean dude

Haha ? maybe. I like you dude?

Oh. Yeah I have never been under anesthesia before. It seems like it was a violent process for you. You seemed to go through the self anxiety/fear resistance/followed by breakthrough all in a few minutes. For me it seems that I daily breakthrough or do not move within self/time continuity. And by awarness I stop feeding the self and it’s resistance. Then I seem to at times go into this deep “state”. For me all the self fear is transcended on the daily. As in due to the content of self. Awareness seems to prevent future projection of experience as that result. All that fear stuff isn’t in the same “experience” as I am speaking of. For me that time in the water, supposedly I was out there for 30 min or so. But there was no fear/self movement at all that I recall. This is close to what faceless encounters on the daily. I don’t see how he embraces it so welcomely. Have you “experienced” anything similar to what I am saying here?

Anyhow I feel the more emptying the daily conciousness becomes the sooner that will happen again. This is difficult to embrace. I don’t know why other than having no time reference.

It wasn’t induced my a chemical though.